Does anyone still care? LSM Response to Open Letter

http://www.open-letter.org/

I'm sure most are familiar with this open letter but in case you're not, here it is.

I was wondering today, why has something like this not happened again? Is it because the people who signed this document felt that this was sufficient? Is it because they don't care anymore? Is it because other heresies have come up?

There are a lot of other possibilities and I always prefer to be gracious, especially when thinking of both fellow brothers and sisters. I'm thankful that this was done, but it seems like the Local Churches continue, and no one is addressing it anymore. At least not theologians and pastors of this caliber. Why do you guys think?

And has anyone heard of any of the signers readdressing this?

[Trapped]

My honest opinion is the reason is "time".

The open letter at the link above was a certain length long. LSM's response to it was very, very long. And meandering. And evasive and disingenuous. Or required inner knowledge of the LC in order to see where they were lying.

Who of the more than 70 scholars/leaders who signed the open letter has the time and energy to devote their unpaid resources to a group that refuses to listen and plays a never-ending game of dancing deception? I'm not aware of many.

Norm Geisler and Ron Rhodes, two of the signers, wrote a lengthy response to CRI's journal on the local church, which response contained many excellent points, but LSM just countered with an even longer evasive and disingenuous response. (several books' worth, if my memory serves me well).

The amount of time it takes to untangle LSM's wonky teachings and slimy tactics is prohibitive to....well....just about everyone.

We get people like Nigel Tomes who takes an exhaustive approach to methodically parsing through the false teachings, but he's the rare one. No one has that kind of time or even willingness to voluntarily submit themselves to reading through the ministry in order to counter it's twisted view. I've sat down a couple times to take some personal notes on a particular teaching so I can really understand where the problems were, but always came away from it like "I'm never doing that again.....what an exhausting expenditure of energy!" because it was like every other sentence contained multiple problems.

Also, the more specific and persistent someone gets, probably the more likely they feel they are to potentially face lawsuits from DCP. I wonder if the 70+ scholars/leaders banded together because they felt there was safety in numbers, but I wouldn't expect those same 70 to continue to coordinate together to continue pushing back on the local church. And so it would be up to a smaller group or an individual, and they would then probably feel more vulnerable to legal troubles, etc from DCP. Just a guess.

Also, aside from the lawsuits, the complaints of the open letter are theological disputes and....I don't know....a lot of letters would need to go out to a lot of aberrant groups out there. These kind of theological aberrations of the local church ("natures" of things) don't have a very big palpable impact and probably sink low on the list of other more pressing items.

Just my thoughts.

Trapped

[Nell]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

http://www.open-letter.org/

I'm sure most are familiar with this open letter but in case you're not, here it is.

I was wondering today, why has something like this not happened again? Is it because the people who signed this document felt that this was sufficient? Is it because they don't care anymore? Is it because other heresies have come up?

There are a lot of other possibilities and I always prefer to be gracious, especially when thinking of both fellow brothers and sisters. I'm thankful that this was done, but it seems like the Local Churches continue, and no one is addressing it anymore. At least not theologians and pastors of this caliber. Why do you guys think?

And has anyone heard of any of the signers readdressing this?

I have not heard of anyone readdressing the matter. This press release .pdf http://www.open-letter.org/pdf/OL_PressRelease is dated January 9, 2007…almost 15 years ago. It’s possible that the threat of lawsuits was enough in that time period that the signatories on the open letter were sufficiently bullied into giving up their “mission”.

The Corporate Statement of Harvest House Publishers still keeps the chronology of the proceedings on its website. https://www.harvesthousepublishers.c...ate-statement/

Shepherding Words has this to say about lawsuits: https://shepherdingwords.com/tag/lawsuits/

In its narrative about its litigation against Harvest House, Shepherding Words doesn’t mention (oops!) that it’s failed appeal to the SCOTUS didn’t have enough merit to interest the Supremes in hearing the appeal.

A Call to Keep Theological Disputes Out of the Courts
On June 18, 2007, the U.S. Supreme Court brought an end to The Local Church’s contentious and unsuccessful six-year, $136 million legal battle against Harvest House Publishers and two of its authors, John Ankerberg and John Weldon. The Local Church and its publishing arm, Living Stream Ministry, alleged they had been wrongly accused of criminal conduct in Ankerberg and Weldon’s book Encyclopedia of Cults and New Religions.
The high court’s refusal to hear the case is The Local Church’s fourth appeal to be denied since January 5, 2006, when a Texas appellate court ruled in favor of Harvest House and its authors, and stated unequivocally that the Encyclopedia did not defame The Local Church. The court wrote,
If a statement does not concern appellants, it cannot defame them, nor can it injure their reputations....nothing in the book singles out [The Local Church] as having committed the “immoral, illegal, and despicable” actions alleged in [The Local Church’s] petition (emphasis added).
The Texas Supreme Court upheld that ruling, and now the U.S. Supreme Court has done the same.

http://localchurchdiscussions.com/vB...36&postcount=2
This topic was discussed on this forum at the above link,which includes a list of 20 lawsuits filed by WLee, et al, beginning in 1966.

Nell

[ACuriousFellow]

Originally Posted by Trapped

We get people like Nigel Tomes who takes an exhaustive approach to methodically parsing through the false teachings, but he's the rare one. No one has that kind of time or even willingness to voluntarily submit themselves to reading through the ministry in order to counter it's twisted view. I've sat down a couple times to take some personal notes on a particular teaching so I can really understand where the problems were, but always came away from it like "I'm never doing that again.....what an exhausting expenditure of energy!" because it was like every other sentence contained multiple problems.

Trapped

DEAR LORD ABOVE I'M NOT THE ONLY ONE WHO'S EXPERIENCED THIS.

I suddenly don't feel so alone anymore... May the Lord pour an overabundance of grace and mercy and peace and strength and rest upon those who continue in such endeavors. The first that comes to mind is a YouTube channel called "The Lord's Recovery Unchained." They've take up quite an endeavor, and it's gotten pretty heated in that comments section.

[Trapped]

Originally Posted by ACuriousFellow

DEAR LORD ABOVE I'M NOT THE ONLY ONE WHO'S EXPERIENCED THIS.

I suddenly don't feel so alone anymore... May the Lord pour an overabundance of grace and mercy and peace and strength and rest upon those who continue in such endeavors. The first that comes to mind is a YouTube channel called "The Lord's Recovery Unchained." They've take up quite an endeavor, and it's gotten pretty heated in that comments section.

ACuriousFellow - welcome to the forum!

I'm glad you don't feel alone in this experience anymore. I have been amazed the few times I've sat down to really understand what's wrong with a particular teaching, just how much "off" stuff there is. Or just how much one off thing is connected to another off thing is connected to another off thing. Or how the ministry will misrepresent a verse juuuuust a little bit, which ends up so far off course down the line. It really makes me grieve for all the "saints in the church" who are entangled in this web. It truly is an entire "system of error". And it feels almost literally designed to be so, all the ways the errors are mutually supportive, etc. Add on top of that the culture of blatant eisegesis, and the saints who largely don't seem to be able to grasp the eisegetical approach they so often take, and it feels pretty hopeless.

But we know it's not hopeless, because we are all here and not trapped there anymore. And according to what you've said on other comments in this thread, there are still others in the local church who are in the process of realizing what's wrong. I hope they are supplied to keep pushing through the quagmire and to get out of that place that's so devoid of light and love.

Trapped

[ACuriousFellow]

Originally Posted by Trapped

It truly is an entire "system of error". And it feels almost literally designed to be so, all the ways the errors are mutually supportive, etc.

Trapped

Yes. It seems exactly like a spider web. I get one string of doctrine off them, and then when I focus on the next they get tangled up in the first one again and so on and so forth because everything is so interconnected and tangled together.

[ACuriousFellow]

Originally Posted by Nell

I have not heard of anyone readdressing the matter. This press release .pdf http://www.open-letter.org/pdf/OL_PressRelease is dated January 9, 2007…almost 15 years ago. It’s possible that the threat of lawsuits was enough in that time period that the signatories on the open letter were sufficiently bullied into giving up their “mission”.

Nell

It seems that more and more people from within the group are starting to speak up again, both with regards to abusive experiences and doctrinal analysis. I have this hope that something will come of it, but my expectations aren't so high... My heart aches for my brothers and sisters who are in the denomination known as The Lord's Recovery.

[GraceAlone]

Originally Posted by ACuriousFellow

It seems that more and more people from within the group are starting to speak up again, both with regards to abusive experiences and doctrinal analysis. I have this hope that something will come of it, but my expectations aren't so high... My heart aches for my brothers and sisters who are in the denomination known as The Lord's Recovery.

That's good to hear as I hate to think of so many consciences having become numb to the things you mentioned and that many of us witnessed. As someone who's not been there for a while, may I ask where you see this speaking up from inside happening? Are folks finding ways, in person or online, to actually be heard?

[ACuriousFellow]

Originally Posted by GraceAlone

That's good to hear as I hate to think of so many consciences having become numb to the things you mentioned and that many of us witnessed. As someone who's not been there for a while, may I ask where you see this speaking up from inside happening? Are folks finding ways, in person or online, to actually be heard?

I've heard of a few brothers in my locality that have concerns. I left along with two other young men after trying to reason with several others (about two dozen or so) in The Lord's Recovery about a particular matter that deeply troubled us, and that was apart from our doctrinal concerns.

I know of one other brother who also has deep concerns about The Recovery's obsession with Witness Lee and just having a good time rather than actually maturing and growing. I do not know if he has voiced his concerns, but he is considering leaving The Lord's Recovery.

I have also heard of one other particularly outspoken brother who has voiced his concerns for the lack of care for teaching about repentance and doing good works and a lack of discipline within the church. As far as I've heard, he's really only spoken and argued with some of the elders but has not spoken to the congregation. There is a strong culture of remaining silent and keeping things as concealed as possible lest one be seen as a troublemaker. This outspoken brother still seems to be hooked on the overall teachings of The Recovery, but his heart is definitely stirred up. I do not know how he would feel about Jo Casteel's testimony and the leading ones' response to it. But that is now at least five brothers from my locality who's hearts have been stirred up recently.

My mother had also spoken to several of the women and saw that many of them were discontent with the way they were treated but were too disillusioned to really do anything about it. It seems easy for them to open up to other sisters, apparently, but they aren't really willing to do more than that. It was disturbing to hear that many see these things but somehow feel they are trapped there because "there is no place like The Lord's Recovery!"

It does seem like a good idea to revisit the open letter (and the LSM's response) again in 2023.

The LCM's response is very long and no one has the time to write a rebuttal against all of their nonsense, but I think that their arguments regarding the trinity (only 10 pages long) is of a manageable length to write a rebuttal. I am currently swamped with secular work right now but I will start working on it ASAP.

Wish me luck

[aron]

Originally Posted by ACuriousFellow

There is a strong culture of remaining silent and keeping things as concealed as possible lest one be seen as a troublemaker.

Although this is true, don't forget that there's been high profile public invitation and encouragement, by a current leader in the Lord's recovery, for folks to speak up, to debate and discuss, and to hypothesize and postulate. I know he wasn't speaking in church at that time, but still let's hold up his words as an encouragement to all - perhaps that message should out go to church members? Or, are the local churches like one of those horribly dysfunctional families that smile nicely to the neighbours and say the right things, then the door closes and the tyranny begins? Let's hope not!