Plumb the depths of Adoption

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

If "most Christians" do not properly appreciate the depths of Paul's unique use of the Roman legal word for "adoption," then rather than condemning them in front of all the LC's, he should plumb the depths of this truth, and teach that, which he never did. Instead Lee took the word at face value and used it to criticize the entire Christian public. Most decent teachers and ministers would never do this.
The reason for me to even address this topic was my wife's life-long distaste for Paul's use of the word "adoption," which she received from Lee. She preferred "born again" children of God. Though I would explain that there was no conflict, and both were simultaneously true, addressing our status as sons of God from different directions, she was pickled by Lee's exclusive teaching and unchanging.
Then one day recently I came across a few websites explaining Paul's use of adoption based on Roman law and showed her an article on the rich benefits of Roman "adoption," and she was instantly transformed by the renewing of her mind. The truth had set her free!

(Post 109 from Ohio in an open letter to Ron Kangas)

I didn't want to continue this discussion in the "open letter to Ron Kangas" thread since I felt it would be too far off topic. But I agree with Ohio, there is a great truth here and WL famously took issue with the use of the word "adoption", rather than teach this truth. Since we have all been influenced by his teaching to some extent I thought it would be valuable for all of us, not just Ohio's wife, to address this here.

[awareness]

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Why do we care what the Romans thought, taught, or did? Didn't they torture and kill Jesus?

[Evangelical]

The meaning of adoption under Roman law was still a legal transfer of identity. So it does not matter how much better Roman adoption was to adoption today, or what benefits it brought, when its meaning is strictly a legal meaning - the organic sonship is a much more comforting concept, which is found to be almost non-existent within Christianity.

I believe the adoptive language is a cause of many Christians not realizing their full identity in Christ - quite a number of Christians I have spoken to in the past cannot fathom how Jesus can be our adoptive brother, let alone an actual brother organically.

When we are talking about the born again experience, of the Holy Spirit making us born again, the legal adoptive explanation does not make much sense to me other than a way to describe the benefits that being born again brings. It seems to have served Paul's purpose for the audience he was writing to, but for us today I think we can understand the organic salvation better.

However I wonder why it is necessary at all to think of sonship in an adoptive/legal way, when we obtain all of the same benefits and more by virtue of organic sonship.

If we are organically sons and daughters of God, why do we need to think of ourselves as being adopted?

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

If we are organically sons and daughters of God, why do we need to think of ourselves as being adopted?

The term is not that we were "adopted" as it is understood today, but rather

4but when the fulness of the time came, God sent forth his Son, born of a woman, born under the law, 5that he might redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. (Gal 4:4-5)

The purpose of redemption was that we might receive the adoption of sons.

This is what Paul referred to in Ephesians:

3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ: 4even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blemish before him in love: 5having foreordained us unto adoption as sons through Jesus Christ unto himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, 6to the praise of the glory of his grace, (Ephesians 1:3-6)

The adoption of sons is not a reference to the "organic union" but rather to the authority of having a position in God's kingdom to exercise His authority.

22 For neither doth the Father judge any man, but he hath given all judgment unto the Son; 23 that all may honor the Son, even as they honor the Father. He that honoreth not the Son honoreth not the Father that sent him… 27 and he gave him authority to execute judgment, because he is a son of man

Hebrews explains it best:

hath at the end of these days spoken unto us in his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, through whom also he made the worlds; Heb 1:2

That was when Jesus received the "adoption of sonship" when He was appointed heir of all things.

[Evangelical]

So Paul is talking about what we get (authority) as opposed to who we are (born again sons of God). I've never taken issue with the adoptive stance and the organic stance co-existing, I have always thought adoption is from an objective/legal point of view.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

So Paul is talking about what we get (authority) as opposed to who we are (born again sons of God). I've never taken issue with the adoptive stance and the organic stance co-existing, I have always thought adoption is from an objective/legal point of view.

The NT and Paul never say that this is "what we got" rather this is what we are foreordained to get, and it is never that "we get it" but rather it is "through Jesus".

Jesus has been appointed heir of all things. That is done. The gospel that Paul preached was based on this fundamental revelation:

15But when it was the good pleasure of God, who separated me, even from my mother’s womb, and called me through his grace, 16to reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the Gentiles; Gal 1:15-16

The heir of all things.

When we were born again we received a relationship with God the Father, and that is a basis to pray. But you could be the child of a very powerful king and it doesn't mean He is going to respond to every prayer this child prays. Receiving the adoption of sonship indicates a walk with the Lord, submissive to Him.

14For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. 15For ye received not the spirit of bondage again unto fear; but ye received the spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. 16The Spirit himself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are children of God: 17and if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified with him. (Rom 8:14-17)

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ: 4even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blemish before him in love: 5having foreordained us unto adoption as sons through Jesus Christ unto himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, 6to the praise of the glory of his grace, (Ephesians 1:3-6)

The word "even as" he chose us and foreordained us unto the adoption as sons is the example that demonstrates we have been blessed with every spiritual blessing. If you do not understand when that happened or what these blessings are then it is hard to understand what it means to be chosen and foreordained unto the adoption as sons.

For example:

Galatians 3:9 says We were blessed with Abraham when he received 7 blessings. Ephesians chapter 1 gives us the story of Genesis from Abraham all the way to Joseph, Prince of Egypt.

First blessing to Abraham — “Unto a land that I will show thee”.

Ephesians 1 ends with this prayer —

that we might know the power which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and made him to sit at his right hand in the heavenly places, and he put all things in subjection under his feet, and gave him to be head over all things to the church.

It is a blessing that we could have a spirit of wisdom and revelation to know this Christ.

The six books of Ephesians walk through the 7 blessings given to Abraham. These 7 blessings are the structure for the book as well as being the structure for the first 6 books of the Bible (Genesis through Joshua). But after seeing that you will see that all 7 of these blessings are involved in our being chosen and foreordained unto adoption as sons.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

The six books of Ephesians walk through the 7 blessings given to Abraham. These 7 blessings are the structure for the book as well as being the structure for the first 6 books of the Bible (Genesis through Joshua). But after seeing that you will see that all 7 of these blessings are involved in our being chosen and foreordained unto adoption as sons.

2nd blessing — “and I will make of thee a great nation”

Exodus presents the Israelites in bondage in Egypt. Ephesians 2 says we were formerly dead in sins in the world.

Exodus shows how the Israelites were delivered from Egypt. Ephesians 2 talks about how we were made to sit together with Christ in the heavenlies.

In Exodus we see the Passover feast, summing up God’s deliverance of the Israelites, they are made to sit together with Jesus (the empty seat). In Ephesians we are told that we who were once far off were made nigh in the blood of Christ just as Exodus reveals they were made nigh in the blood of the lamb.

Both conclude with the building of the Holy Temple of the Lord being filled with the Glory of God.

19 So then ye are no more strangers and sojourners, but ye are fellow-citizens with the saints, and of the household of God,

This is the second blessing, God making of us a great nation.

3 — and I will bless thee

Ephesians 3 begins with the dispensation of grace that was given by God to Paul for us. Leviticus begins with the sacrifices and offerings that were ordained by God for the Priests to keep for us.

Ephesians 3 talks about what has been made knows to the apostles and prophets, and how he has been made a minister. Leviticus gives the instructions from Moses to the levitical priests and also to Aaron.

Ephesians 3 finishes with this prayer:

For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father, that he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, that ye may be strengthened with power through his Spirit in the inward man; that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; to the end that ye, being rooted and grounded in love, may be strong to apprehend with all the saints what is the breadth and length and height and depth, and to know the love of Christ which passeth knowledge, that ye may be filled unto all the fullness of God.

This is the third blessing, that we would be filled unto all the fullness of God.

Leviticus also concludes with a blessing on the nation of Israel.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ: 4even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blemish before him in love: 5having foreordained us unto adoption as sons through Jesus Christ unto himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, 6to the praise of the glory of his grace, (Ephesians 1:3-6)

So then, if we were blessed with Believing Abraham with these 7 blessings, and this is what Paul is referring to in Ephesians, he then says it is "even as we were chosen and foreordained unto adoption as sons".

He is using this to illustrate these blessings. For example, suppose you were drafted by the NFL. That is equivalent to being chosen. But you don't have a contract yet, so you aren't officially part of the NFL yet. But, once you sign a contract with the team you are now officially and legally part of the NFL. That contract is equivalent to the "adoption as sons".

In this illustration when you are chosen you get to "see" the land. The team chose you because they want to "make a great team". Your contract is a blessing. The blessing is to give you a great name. If you are really great you will make those around you better, you will be a blessing to the team. You may even take on a leadership role, or even become a coach. In that case those that listen to you, obey you, honor you will be blessed. Finally, you can be a blessing to everyone, regardless of whether or not they are in the NFL or even care about football.

So then, how do you get that contract? You have to walk worthily of the calling with which you were called.

[Ohio]

Too bad Evangelical quit before he could see all your great posts on "adoption."

Thanks.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

So then, if we were blessed with Believing Abraham with these 7 blessings, and this is what Paul is referring to in Ephesians, he then says it is "even as we were chosen and foreordained unto adoption as sons".

He is using this to illustrate these blessings. For example, suppose you were drafted by the NFL. That is equivalent to being chosen. But you don't have a contract yet, so you aren't officially part of the NFL yet. But, once you sign a contract with the team you are now officially and legally part of the NFL. That contract is equivalent to the "adoption as sons".

In this illustration when you are chosen you get to "see" the land. The team chose you because they want to "make a great team". Your contract is a blessing. The blessing is to give you a great name. If you are really great you will make those around you better, you will be a blessing to the team. You may even take on a leadership role, or even become a coach. In that case those that listen to you, obey you, honor you will be blessed. Finally, you can be a blessing to everyone, regardless of whether or not they are in the NFL or even care about football.

So then, how do you get that contract? You have to walk worthily of the calling with which you were called.

There is a very clear issue with this interpretation:

11in whom also we were made a heritage, (ASV)

11In whom also we have obtained an inheritance (KJV)

11In Him also we have received an inheritance [a destiny—we were claimed by God as His own] (amplified)

11in whom we have also obtained an inheritance (Darby)

Verse 11 has a double meaning, it can be translated that "we have obtained an inheritance" or it can also be translated "we have been made a heritage", or you can understand it as meaning both of these.

So the issue is quite simple. Unto the adoption of sons is in the future, to say that we have "obtained an inheritance" is the past.

Jesus Christ was "made Lord and Christ" that is past tense. He has ascended to the father and been declared the Son of God. So then, when we are "in Him" there are two realities. One reality is that we have obtained an inheritance. The other reality is that we have been given to the Lord as an inheritance.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

The meaning of adoption under Roman law was still a legal transfer of identity. So it does not matter how much better Roman adoption was to adoption today, or what benefits it brought, when its meaning is strictly a legal meaning - the organic sonship is a much more comforting concept, which is found to be almost non-existent within Christianity.

I believe the adoptive language is a cause of many Christians not realizing their full identity in Christ - quite a number of Christians I have spoken to in the past cannot fathom how Jesus can be our adoptive brother, let alone an actual brother organically.

However I wonder why it is necessary at all to think of sonship in an adoptive/legal way, when we obtain all of the same benefits and more by virtue of organic sonship.

If we are organically sons and daughters of God, why do we need to think of ourselves as being adopted?

This post is filled with errors, misconceptions, and falsehoods.

Firstly, "the organic sonship is a much more comforting concept" was not true among the Gentiles under Roman Law. Born sons could be dis-owned and dis-inherited. Not so with adopted sons! It's so much more comforting to know the truth, than to know Lee's teachings!

Is this really "found to be almost non-existent within Christianity?" Another Lee falsehood. All true Christians confess they are born of God. Where have you been?

Witness Lee and his many lovers love all things "organic." But until one has been organically blacklisted, organically quarantined, and organically sued in courts by your own local and organic brothers, then you realize "organic" means nothing, and is just the latest buzzword without any reality to is.

Evangelical says, "If we are organically sons and daughters of God, why do we need to think of ourselves as being adopted?" Why that's very simple. Because the Apostle Paul taught us so! And the entire body of Christ considers his teachings to be better than your source of teaching -- Witness Lee.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

This post is filled with errors, misconceptions, and falsehoods.

Firstly, "the organic sonship is a much more comforting concept" was not true among the Gentiles under Roman Law. Born sons could be dis-owned and dis-inherited. Not so with adopted sons! It's so much more comforting to know the truth, than to know Lee's teachings!

This is true in the NT.

And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Matt 7:23

Compare:

And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. Jn 14:13

Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may spend it in your pleasures. James 4:3

In both cases we can assume the person praying is a child of God.

We have been foreordained to the adoption of sons, this is referring to us working together with God.

19Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father doing: for what things soever he doeth, these the Son also doeth in like manner. 20For the Father loveth the Son, and showeth him all things that himself doeth: and greater works than these will he show him, that ye may marvel.

[Ohio]

So much for Evan G's "organic security."

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. Jn 14:13

Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may spend it in your pleasures. James 4:3

This brings us to the point. If you are in the name of Jesus then it is true that you are in "the Lord of all" and "the heir of all things" and "whatsoever ye shall ask that will I do".

The determining factor is not whether or not you are a child of God, born of God, but if you are in the name of the one who has been declared Lord of All.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by Ohio

This post is filled with errors, misconceptions, and falsehoods.

Firstly, "the organic sonship is a much more comforting concept" was not true among the Gentiles under Roman Law. Born sons could be dis-owned and dis-inherited. Not so with adopted sons! It's so much more comforting to know the truth, than to know Lee's teachings!

Is this really "found to be almost non-existent within Christianity?" Another Lee falsehood. All true Christians confess they are born of God. Where have you been?

Witness Lee and his many lovers love all things "organic." But until one has been organically blacklisted, organically quarantined, and organically sued in courts by your own local and organic brothers, then you realize "organic" means nothing, and is just the latest buzzword without any reality to is.

Evangelical says, "If we are organically sons and daughters of God, why do we need to think of ourselves as being adopted?" Why that's very simple. Because the Apostle Paul taught us so! And the entire body of Christ considers his teachings to be better than your source of teaching -- Witness Lee.

Well if true (because you tend to get the facts wrong, any historical sources to support your statements?) it might sound comforting to a Roman but last time I checked most people on here do not live under Roman law so do not understand it. For that reason organic sonship is better to explain than adoption. Why not make the illustration relevant to today?

Also, the Roman adoption idea Paul presented is just a metaphor. The spiritual reality is organic son-ship. This is because when a person is born again, they receive the Spirit ("I will put My Spirit in you"~ God) , they do not receive legal adoption papers ("I will send you the contract~God"). Think about it.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Well if true (because you tend to get the facts wrong, any historical sources to support your statements?) it might sound comforting to a Roman but last time I checked most people on here do not live under Roman law so do not understand it. For that reason organic sonship is better to explain than adoption. Why not make the illustration relevant to today?

Most people don't understand crucifixion either, and don't understand that part of Roman law either. Did you know that Jesus died on the cross? How did you understand what happened? Where did you get your point of reference?

Perhaps God should have designed a more "organic" death for His Son. Perhaps a simple kitchen knife -- like Abraham planned to use on Isaac -- would have been more in tune with your culture. Since capital punishment is out of style these days, maybe you have something else in mind for Jesus.

I'm trying to make this easy for you bro, since you are so hung up on Paul's use of cultural norms to explain spiritual realities.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

Why do we care what the Romans thought, taught, or did? Didn't they torture and kill Jesus?

But that ye may know that the Son of man hath authority on earth to forgive sins...

[awareness]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

But that ye may know that the Son of man hath authority on earth to forgive sins...

So we need Hellenism to step into our Christian experience?

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

So we need Hellenism to step into our Christian experience?

Most Greek stories deal with appeasement (a lower stature person trying to mollify the powerful offended person) or clemency (a powerful person trying to subjugate someone else). I am not aware of any Greek story of God giving His son to pay the price to redeem sinners so that they could ultimately receive the adoption of sonship.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Most Greek stories deal with appeasement (a lower stature person trying to mollify the powerful offended person) or clemency (a powerful person trying to subjugate someone else). I am not aware of any Greek story of God giving His son to pay the price to redeem sinners so that they could ultimately receive the adoption of sonship.

Then why bring in the Roman definition of adoption into it?