Do you think that highest truth of Witnesse Lee can satisfy your hunger?

[Truthseeker]

The main reason why people search for God and His way of life is hunger and thirst for the Lord Himself. Several believers and seekers in Roman Catholic and denominations may leave his or her own place because he or she feels unsatisfied by the teachings and the low level of divine revelation that is they still feel empty and their spiritual hunger and thrist still can't be fulfilled.

So, what's about all of your life in the local churches under the direction of Living Stream office? The highest truth according to Witness Lee(including the practicality of Church life)can feed your spiritual hunger and thrist, can't it? Let us debate on it!

[Evangelical]

What is the highest truth of Witness Lee?

[Drake]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

The main reason why people search for God and His way of life is hunger and thirst for the Lord Himself. Several believers and seekers in Roman Catholic and denominations may leave his or her own place because he or she feels unsatisfied by the teachings and the low level of divine revelation that is they still feel empty and their spiritual hunger and thrist still can't be fulfilled.

So, what's about all of your life in the local churches under the direction of Living Stream office? The highest truth according to Witness Lee(including the practicality of Church life)can feed your spiritual hunger and thrist, can't it? Let us debate on it!

Ok. Good topic.

Define the highest truth acording to Witness Lee.

Drake

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Drake

Ok. Good topic.

Define the highest truth acording to Witness Lee.

Drake

Hey bro Drake, and Evangelical. It's always good to define our terms.

Can we we finger Lee's highest truth? I've got the video. Lee said, "No more high peaks without practice."

So Lee defined it for us himself. He called it "high peaks."

I guess what Truthseeker is asking us is : 'Can Lees' high peaks feed your spiritual hunger and thirst?'

Everyone has different tastes. I respect that. And at different times in our life we need different kinds of food. Paul called the Corinthians milk drinkers, as opposed to meat eaters.

So at different times in our life, Lee may feed our spiritual hunger. I know he once did mine. Back when I needed milk, so to speak.

But to answer brother Truthseeker : "No! Lee's high peaks does not feed my spiritual hunger and thirst."

Moreover, Lee was right, in speaking about teachings and practice ; to put it in theological terms, between orthodoxy and HIS heterodoxy. His practice did not live up to his and Nee's 'high peak' teachings. I saw his infractions with my own eyes.

So I think we could safely say that, he eventually admitted the truth about HIS teachings and practices. When he said no more high peaks without practice he directed it at everyone else, but not himself. Cuz if he had then he should have never taught he and Nee's high peaks in the first place.

To repeat. He said no more high peaks without practice. Then based upon his own hypocritical practices, he should have never taught "high peaks." No matter how high high peak teachings might be, how can hypocrisy spiritually feed us?

Joh_4:23-24 KJV : But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Maybe we shouldn't look to Lee to feed us, but to the Lord.

Truthseeker, if I'm way off base here, please let me know.

[Koinonia]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

So, what's about all of your life in the local churches under the direction of Living Stream office? The highest truth according to Witness Lee(including the practicality of Church life)can feed your spiritual hunger and thrist, can't it? Let us debate on it!

No, "the highest truth according to Witness Lee" cannot feed my spiritual hunger and thirst.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Koinonia

No, "the highest truth according to Witness Lee" cannot feed my spiritual hunger and thirst.

Witness Lee and the Blendeds constantly seeded the LCM that their ministry had a "unique taste and flavor."

This also was used by LSM to justify their excommunication of Titus Chu and others.

With LSM, the truth of God's word is always secondary to their exclusive "taste, flavor, and spiritual feelings."

[Truthseeker]

In 1994, Lee talked about the consummation of the New Jerusalem which comes from the building of redeemed, sanctified and glorified saints in their tripartite being. And the Church life is the reality of this high peak or highest truth.
But now LSM is emphasizing on the New One Man.

[Drake]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

In 1994, Lee talked about the consummation of the New Jerusalem which comes from the building of redeemed, sanctified and glorified saints in their tripartite being. And the Church life is the reality of this high peak or highest truth.
But now LSM is emphasizing on the New One Man.

The Bible reveals the Church in different aspects. The Bride, the New Jerusalem, the one new man, the Body.

All represent some different asoect.

Drake

[leastofthese]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

In 1994, Lee talked about the consummation of the New Jerusalem which comes from the building of redeemed, sanctified and glorified saints in their tripartite being. And the Church life is the reality of this high peak or highest truth.
But now LSM is emphasizing on the New One Man.

The highest truth would be found in Lee's life studies. Witness Lee said, "We should enter into all the truths of the Bible by means of the life-study messages." The bible is too complicated for normal folk like you and me, plus Witness Lee already perfectly packaged all the best truths for us. Witness Lee has recovered all these awesome little nuggets that no one else could see, or if someone else sees them, he saw them first, and in a better way (obviously). Divinely God breathed scripture - no, even better! (Amen, Amen)

Lee goes onto say, "The Bible is a special work of literature. Although it does not focus on any particular topic, it has a central theme that is comprehensive, encompassing many matters. Over the ages, the greatest difficulty for Bible readers has been the difficulty of seeing the Bible’s central light and the comprehensiveness of its light. Thus, their understanding of the Bible has been fragmented and peripheral. They may have understood a point here and a point there, but they have not been able to gain a complete understanding. If we want to have a complete understanding of the Bible, we must see that the Bible has only one center and that this center encompasses many matters; it is comprehensive.

Under this principle the life-studies have a center. They also contain explanations and definitions of various matters, so they are comprehensive as well. Therefore, when we study the life-studies, we are always able to obtain the life nourishment from them, and we are also able to gain some knowledge of the truth. However, because they are comprehensive and are not focused on one specific topic, it is difficult for people to see the center. This is why when we study the life-studies with people, we must point out the central theme and present the main points to them."

Chapter 1 Truth, Life, Church, and the Gospel

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by leastofthese

The highest truth would be found in Lee's life studies. Witness Lee said, "We should enter into all the truths of the Bible by means of the life-study messages." The bible is too complicated for normal folk like you and me, plus Witness Lee already perfectly packaged all the best truths for us. Witness Lee has recovered all these awesome little nuggets that no one else could see, or if someone else sees them, he saw them first, and in a better way (obviously). Divinely God breathed scripture - no, even better! (Amen, Amen)

No leastofthese your fellowship is not the "up-to-date" word of the god-man minister of the age.

The Life-Studies are merely the "Interpreted" word of God, but the highest truth and the "high peak" truths must be found in the Crystalization Studies.

I know because I was corrected by those who "knew."

[awareness]

Originally Posted by leastofthese

The highest truth would be found in Lee's life studies.

My experience with the Life-Studies was that they were actually Death-Studies. Also, you can't trust a writers opinion of his own work. When an author reviews his or her own writings it's always over inflated and over blown.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

The main reason why people search for God and His way of life is hunger and thirst for the Lord Himself. Several believers and seekers in Roman Catholic and denominations may leave his or her own place because he or she feels unsatisfied by the teachings and the low level of divine revelation that is they still feel empty and their spiritual hunger and thrist still can't be fulfilled.

Same can be said about the local churches. That it can leave someone unfulfilled. I've visited Catholic churches and I found it equally unfulfilling.
Result is to meet with an assembly where one can be filled spiritually.

[Evangelical]

The highest truth according to Witness Lee is being made God in life and nature corporately, i.e. the New Jerusalem.

If you stated that this cannot feed your hunger and thirst you have basically said that the New Jerusalem (or "Heaven" as Christianity likes to call it) cannot satisfy you. That makes me L. O. L. But I'm glad, because it means less competition in the race to the top.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

The highest truth according to Witness Lee is being made God in life and nature corporately, i.e. the New Jerusalem.

If you stated that this cannot feed your hunger and thirst you have basically said that the New Jerusalem (or "Heaven" as Christianity likes to call it) cannot satisfy you. That makes me L. O. L. But I'm glad, because it means less competition in the race to the top.

So bro EvanG, please tell me how Lee twisted the book of Revelation to say the NJ was coming up from earth and not down from heaven?

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by awareness

So bro EvanG, please tell me how Lee twisted the book of Revelation to say the NJ was coming up from earth and not down from heaven?

It comes down not up

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

It comes down not up

Thanks, but I knew that. Then I don't understand : "being made God in life and nature corporately, i.e. the New Jerusalem."

[Koinonia]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

The highest truth according to Witness Lee is being made God in life and nature corporately, i.e. the New Jerusalem.

If you stated that this cannot feed your hunger and thirst you have basically said that the New Jerusalem (or "Heaven" as Christianity likes to call it) cannot satisfy you. That makes me L. O. L. But I'm glad, because it means less competition in the race to the top.

Does this "highest truth" belong to Witness Lee?

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Koinonia

Does this "highest truth" belong to Witness Lee?

Does it matter? It's not a doctrine developed in scripture.

Lee lived 92 yrs, and never was made God in life and nature. I would think the highest truth would be something real.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Does it matter? It's not a doctrine developed in scripture.

Lee lived 92 yrs, and never was made God in life and nature. I would think the highest truth would be something real.

Good point. The way WL behaved at the end towards Philip Lee and John Ingalls indicated that in life and nature he was more shaped by money and fame.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by Koinonia

Does this "highest truth" belong to Witness Lee?

Its the highest part of the bible...the end. Cant get any higher.

[Trapped]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

That makes me L. O. L. But I'm glad, because it means less competition in the race to the top.

You're........glad?

You view fellow believers/brothers/sisters/pursuers as..........competition?

"race to the top"..........where you will be on the highest podium happily looking down at others below you that you stepped on en route? or what?

I had to blink a few times to make sure I was really seeing those words. I'm hoping I somehow misread what you wrote there.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by Trapped

You're........glad?
You view fellow believers/brothers/sisters/pursuers as..........competition?
"race to the top"..........where you will be on the highest podium happily looking down at others below you that you stepped on en route? or what?
I had to blink a few times to make sure I was really seeing those words. I'm hoping I somehow misread what you wrote there.

The Christian life is a race. Jesus said to strive to enter the narrow gate.

Hebrews 12:1, "Let us run with patience the race that is set before us."

Rev 3:21 "To the one who is victorious...."

To step on people en route seems like playing dirty.

[Nell]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

The highest truth according to Witness Lee is being made God in life and nature corporately, i.e. the New Jerusalem.
...

I wrote this letter in 1994 but I never mailed it. Despite the levity, I asked some important questions which need to be answered by those who still espouse the notion that "man becomes God".

********************************

9/9/94

Brother Witness Lee
1853 West Ball Road
Post Office Box 2121
Anaheim, CA 92804

Dear Brother Lee:

I heard you say in a meeting in Irving, Texas on March 6, 1994 that you believe and are teaching that man becomes God. I think I've made it. I mean, I think I've become God.

Women can be God-persons too, can't they? So I can be sure, if someone in the Bible has become God, who would that be? What verse in the Bible tells us that person or persons' name? I need someone to compare myself to. I must also know the name of any subsequent person or persons who have become God, living or dead, if any, since Biblical times. I want to get us all together for a little home group meeting. I have lots of ideas about how all of us God-persons can go on together in the Us-ordained way. I think we should all get together in Hawaii as soon as possible, maybe Thanksgiving would be an appropriate time. There's so much we need to talk about.

I would like to know the name of the person or persons who make the determination that someone has actually become God, and your scripture reference for the qualifications of this person, or do you become God by self-determination? Does the person or committee who decides that another person is God have to himself or herself be God? How do you know for sure when you get to be God? Or, supposing self-determination, when you become God, do you tell people that you are God and they are supposed to take your word for it? In the past, we have always swallowed everything you said, hook, line and sinker, regardless of what the Bible said, but I thought this might be different.

When you become God, is it proper for you to tell people about it? Do you just say "I'm God" or is there a more delicate way to do it? All the people I know about who claim to be Jesus have either been certifiable mental cases or cult leaders. Gosh, I sure hope no one gets any crazy ideas like that about You and Me!

Will my friends and family still call me "Nell" or will I have another title? Can I quit work?

Will the Living Stream Ministry Office be the governing body for designation of God-persons? (Maybe you can bring your son, Phillip, in to help out with this new certification process. Is he a Christian?) Will we apply for some kind of papers authenticating our new status? Will we take an exam? If so, I think I'm ready. I was under Your ministry for fifteen years, and I have been back into Your elders' training books lately (I think that's what put me over the top.) I have read the first eight books. They are quite uplifting—many times I came right out of my chair.

Since "God" by definition is deity, where is your scripture reference for Godship without deity? Don't you think we could just leave that part out? Just this once?

You're God too, aren't you? I think you are. Don't be coy! Tell me. I won't tell. I'm pretty sure I want to start giving conferences and trainings now. You and I have a big job to do if we want to turn Our recovery around. You know how the morale has just about bottomed out.

Since I'm younger, I'll take the lead. You and I can decide who else gets to be God, and when Phillip gets here, he can help. We need a proper title, and, of course, I'll need to look at the books (financial records). We can't have any more little scrapes like the one you got into with Sal in Boston. Since your career is winding down we need some continuity, so I'm sure you'll agree that this is best for Us.

Well, Witness, it's good to fellowship these things with You. If you need any help, now, You know Who to call. You're not alone anymore. You've got all us God-persons to watch out for you. We are all equal aren't we?

Love,
Nell, G-p

PS: Is a "god" without deity a false god or no? I was thinking about that Dagon idol in the Old Testament and wondered if he was one of us.

***********************************************

It should also be noted that in 1994 I waited with great anticipation for the "Life Study" of this March 9, 1994 meeting in Irving. When published, it had been sanitized beyond recognition as the meeting I actually attended. "Man becomes God" had been morphed into something else. Also note that “corporately, I.e. the New Jerusalem” wasn’t part of the package in 1994.

So those of you who bought into this "high truth", please support your belief and answer the above questions. That shouldn't be hard. You are God, aren't you?

[Drake]

-1

You should have sent it.

Missed opportunity.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Drake

-1

You should have sent it.

Missed opportunity.

Like Lee would have even opened a letter from a sister ... much less read it ... and even less, count it as something that matters.

After all, Athanasius didn't write : “God became man that woman might become God.”

[awareness]

By the way sister Nell, this was top notch sarcasm (left below)

Harold
----------------------.

Originally Posted by Nell

I wrote this letter in 1994 but I never mailed it. Despite the levity, I asked some important questions which need to be answered by those who still espouse the notion that "man becomes God".

********************************

9/9/94

Brother Witness Lee
1853 West Ball Road
Post Office Box 2121
Anaheim, CA 92804

Dear Brother Lee:

I heard you say in a meeting in Irving, Texas on March 6, 1994 that you believe and are teaching that man becomes God. I think I've made it. I mean, I think I've become God.

Women can be God-persons too, can't they? So I can be sure, if someone in the Bible has become God, who would that be? What verse in the Bible tells us that person or persons' name? I need someone to compare myself to. I must also know the name of any subsequent person or persons who have become God, living or dead, if any, since Biblical times. I want to get us all together for a little home group meeting. I have lots of ideas about how all of us God-persons can go on together in the Us-ordained way. I think we should all get together in Hawaii as soon as possible, maybe Thanksgiving would be an appropriate time. There's so much we need to talk about.

I would like to know the name of the person or persons who make the determination that someone has actually become God, and your scripture reference for the qualifications of this person, or do you become God by self-determination? Does the person or committee who decides that another person is God have to himself or herself be God? How do you know for sure when you get to be God? Or, supposing self-determination, when you become God, do you tell people that you are God and they are supposed to take your word for it? In the past, we have always swallowed everything you said, hook, line and sinker, regardless of what the Bible said, but I thought this might be different.

When you become God, is it proper for you to tell people about it? Do you just say "I'm God" or is there a more delicate way to do it? All the people I know about who claim to be Jesus have either been certifiable mental cases or cult leaders. Gosh, I sure hope no one gets any crazy ideas like that about You and Me!

Will my friends and family still call me "Nell" or will I have another title? Can I quit work?

Will the Living Stream Ministry Office be the governing body for designation of God-persons? (Maybe you can bring your son, Phillip, in to help out with this new certification process. Is he a Christian?) Will we apply for some kind of papers authenticating our new status? Will we take an exam? If so, I think I'm ready. I was under Your ministry for fifteen years, and I have been back into Your elders' training books lately (I think that's what put me over the top.) I have read the first eight books. They are quite uplifting—many times I came right out of my chair.

Since "God" by definition is deity, where is your scripture reference for Godship without deity? Don't you think we could just leave that part out? Just this once?

You're God too, aren't you? I think you are. Don't be coy! Tell me. I won't tell. I'm pretty sure I want to start giving conferences and trainings now. You and I have a big job to do if we want to turn Our recovery around. You know how the morale has just about bottomed out.

Since I'm younger, I'll take the lead. You and I can decide who else gets to be God, and when Phillip gets here, he can help. We need a proper title, and, of course, I'll need to look at the books (financial records). We can't have any more little scrapes like the one you got into with Sal in Boston. Since your career is winding down we need some continuity, so I'm sure you'll agree that this is best for Us.

Well, Witness, it's good to fellowship these things with You. If you need any help, now, You know Who to call. You're not alone anymore. You've got all us God-persons to watch out for you. We are all equal aren't we?

Love,
Nell, G-p

PS: Is a "god" without deity a false god or no? I was thinking about that Dagon idol in the Old Testament and wondered if he was one of us.

***********************************************

It should also be noted that in 1994 I waited with great anticipation for the "Life Study" of this March 9, 1994 meeting in Irving. When published, it had been sanitized beyond recognition as the meeting I actually attended. "Man becomes God" had been morphed into something else. Also note that “corporately, I.e. the New Jerusalem” wasn’t part of the package in 1994.

So those of you who bought into this "high truth", please support your belief and answer the above questions. That shouldn't be hard. You are God, aren't you?

[Nell]

Originally Posted by awareness

By the way sister Nell, this was top notch sarcasm (left below)

Harold
----------------------.

Thanks—Good questions though.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by Nell

I wrote this letter in 1994 but I never mailed it. Despite the levity, I asked some important questions which need to be answered by those who still espouse the notion that "man becomes God".

********************************

9/9/94

Brother Witness Lee
1853 West Ball Road
Post Office Box 2121
Anaheim, CA 92804

Dear Brother Lee:

I heard you say in a meeting in Irving, Texas on March 6, 1994 that you believe and are teaching that man becomes God. I think I've made it. I mean, I think I've become God.

Women can be God-persons too, can't they? So I can be sure, if someone in the Bible has become God, who would that be? What verse in the Bible tells us that person or persons' name? I need someone to compare myself to. I must also know the name of any subsequent person or persons who have become God, living or dead, if any, since Biblical times. I want to get us all together for a little home group meeting. I have lots of ideas about how all of us God-persons can go on together in the Us-ordained way. I think we should all get together in Hawaii as soon as possible, maybe Thanksgiving would be an appropriate time. There's so much we need to talk about.

I would like to know the name of the person or persons who make the determination that someone has actually become God, and your scripture reference for the qualifications of this person, or do you become God by self-determination? Does the person or committee who decides that another person is God have to himself or herself be God? How do you know for sure when you get to be God? Or, supposing self-determination, when you become God, do you tell people that you are God and they are supposed to take your word for it? In the past, we have always swallowed everything you said, hook, line and sinker, regardless of what the Bible said, but I thought this might be different.

When you become God, is it proper for you to tell people about it? Do you just say "I'm God" or is there a more delicate way to do it? All the people I know about who claim to be Jesus have either been certifiable mental cases or cult leaders. Gosh, I sure hope no one gets any crazy ideas like that about You and Me!

Will my friends and family still call me "Nell" or will I have another title? Can I quit work?

Will the Living Stream Ministry Office be the governing body for designation of God-persons? (Maybe you can bring your son, Phillip, in to help out with this new certification process. Is he a Christian?) Will we apply for some kind of papers authenticating our new status? Will we take an exam? If so, I think I'm ready. I was under Your ministry for fifteen years, and I have been back into Your elders' training books lately (I think that's what put me over the top.) I have read the first eight books. They are quite uplifting—many times I came right out of my chair.

Since "God" by definition is deity, where is your scripture reference for Godship without deity? Don't you think we could just leave that part out? Just this once?

You're God too, aren't you? I think you are. Don't be coy! Tell me. I won't tell. I'm pretty sure I want to start giving conferences and trainings now. You and I have a big job to do if we want to turn Our recovery around. You know how the morale has just about bottomed out.

Since I'm younger, I'll take the lead. You and I can decide who else gets to be God, and when Phillip gets here, he can help. We need a proper title, and, of course, I'll need to look at the books (financial records). We can't have any more little scrapes like the one you got into with Sal in Boston. Since your career is winding down we need some continuity, so I'm sure you'll agree that this is best for Us.

Well, Witness, it's good to fellowship these things with You. If you need any help, now, You know Who to call. You're not alone anymore. You've got all us God-persons to watch out for you. We are all equal aren't we?

Love,
Nell, G-p

PS: Is a "god" without deity a false god or no? I was thinking about that Dagon idol in the Old Testament and wondered if he was one of us.

***********************************************

It should also be noted that in 1994 I waited with great anticipation for the "Life Study" of this March 9, 1994 meeting in Irving. When published, it had been sanitized beyond recognition as the meeting I actually attended. "Man becomes God" had been morphed into something else. Also note that “corporately, I.e. the New Jerusalem” wasn’t part of the package in 1994.

So those of you who bought into this "high truth", please support your belief and answer the above questions. That shouldn't be hard. You are God, aren't you?

The LGBTI version of Athanasius is:

God became a man, so that man could become a woman

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

The main reason why people search for God and His way of life is hunger and thirst for the Lord Himself.
So, what's about all of your life in the local churches under the direction of Living Stream office?

To be candidly honest, Witness Lee's "highest truth" never satisfied my hunger. Worshiping and praising the Lord was far more satisfying.

In fact, Lee's teachings over time created huge growing conflicts and bondage within. We would hear all the hype during the trainings, come back attempting to put into practice, and eventually they would be discarded as failed experiments. We constantly heard that Lee had all the riches, that we needed only them, but we slowly died from malnutrition. We had "irreconcilable differences," and apparently needed a "divorce." Because of Titus Chu's oversight, many of Lee's movements never made it into our LC's. Nearly none of Lee's winds and waves of teaching ever bore much fruit beyond the mid-80's "New Way" time frame. Yet we stuck it out, hoping beyond hope, until they excommunicated us.

When I first entered the LC's, it was anointed Christ-centered teachings from the Bible. I was filled in the Spirit hearing the word and speaking for the Lord. Most LC ministers had some liberty to preach according to the local needs. They could labor in the word, and not be confined to Lee's regurgitated teachings.

I have been overwhelmingly convinced by the testimonies of many ex-members that the anointing on Lee's ministry (btw, common to all ministers of the Lord) slowly vanished because of all the pride and unrighteousness at LSM.