Regarding "Beseeching.Org

[UntoHim]

1. To administrate the world situation from the throne for the move of the great wheel of His economy, to bless the nations of United States and Canada for the sake of His purpose, and to preserve the people and the land for His own will (Psa. 33:12; Ezek. 1:15; Matt. 24:14).

“The great wheel of His economy”? Say WHAT? I have a feeling that this “great wheel of his economy” is about as biblical as the dharma wheel. Seriously, these guys are getting more out of touch with reality every day. I hope they have spent these three days praying about something more relevant and biblical then this.

2. To give godly fear and wisdom to those in high positions of government so that the saints can lead a life in relative peace and tranquility in order to carry out God's desire to save men and to release the truth (Ezra 6:10; Jer. 29:7; 1 Tim. 2:2).

This was real good up until the “release the truth” part. Oh well, can’t have it all I guess.

3. To pour out a spirit of prayer and supplication on the churches in the recovery so they will intercede on behalf of all men according to the desire of the Savior God (1 Tim. 2:1, 3-4).

According to what Andrew Yu told Hank Hanegraaff ALL Christians and churches that contribute “something positive to the Body of Christ” are in the recovery, and if they still mean this then…you go brothers you go!

4. To perfect an unprecedented one accord and harmony in coordination, the master key of divine blessings, among the local churches and in the Lord's work (John 17:11, 21, 23).

“The master key of divine blessings”? I’m afraid to ask….. Ya know they shouldn’t have to pray anymore about “an unprecedented one accord and harmony”….after all they’ve ex-communicated, disfellowshipped and quarantined just about everyone who wasn’t going along with the program…so what’s the point?

5. To kindle and maintain the spirit of gospel-preaching in all the saints so they can be witnesses of Christ to proclaim the complete and high gospel of God to the unbelievers (Acts 1:8; Eph. 6:15, 19-20; Phil. 1:27).

So there’s a gospel that is not complete and not so high? Never mind…sorry I asked.

6. To open a door for the Word of God, especially the interpreted word, the deeper truths, and the ministry of the age in the hearts of numerous seeking believers and Christian groups (Col. 4:3; 2 Thes. 3:1; Acts 17:11).

Should have stopped with the Word of God – quit while you’re ahead I’ve always heard. Really, do you thing that “seeking believers and Christian groups” are not going to see right through the thinly veiled disguise of “the interpreted word”? Do you think they won’t be asking the all-important “WHOSE INTERPRETATION?” and “WHAT DEEPER TRUTHS?” and “WHAT MINISTRY OF THE AGE?” Tsk, Tsk, Tsk my brothers! Back in the day we weren’t so coy about promoting Witness Lee. You guys have become wimps. Shame on you.

7. To recover and sustain a common practice of migration in the churches and in the saints, that they would live a life of the altar and the tent and move to spread the Lord's testimony to many places (Acts 8;4; 11;19; Heb. 11:13).
8. To plant golden church-tree lampstands, through the migrating saints in many new cities and towns in every state and province (Acts 9:31; Gal.1:2; Rev. 1:11)

Migration is good - Lessen you gots yourself a homestead (that you can’t sell very quick these days) and a few kids in a decent grade school with good teachers and established friends. How many of the Blended Brothers fit this description? (sound of crickets…) Suddenly the “tent and move” gig don’t sound so great does it? Besides, what are you supposed to do when the new “common practice” turns back to the ole Local Church “two-four-six-eight let’s all consolidate” flow? This is to say nothing of the fact that many Local Churches in America are suffering dwindling numbers. Migration only makes sense when a movement is thriving, not when it’s on life-support.

9. To silence and turn the opposers and critics of the recovery and the ministry by opening and enlightening their inner eyes and by granting them a just heart and fair discernment of the facts and the truth (1 Tim. 1:16; 2 Tim. 2:25; 3:9).

You got it backwards guys (as usual) My inner eyes got enlightened, my heart found justice and then came fair discernment of the facts and the truth – THAT’S when I became an “opposer” (in your eyes) and a critic of the Local Church of Witness Lee. Tell ya what, why don't you stop praying about silencing the opposers and critics and come here and talk it out?

10. To increase the number of typical Americans in the churches--to make the membership in the recovery more proportionate to the ethnic demographics of the general population--while still gaining people of every tribe, tongue, and nation for the one new man (Col. 3:10-11; Rev. 5:9).

I’m speechless. Do you know what it takes to make me speechless? (don’t answer that). Do you guys have a Bible? Point me to where the verse that shows the local church should reflect the “typical” anything? Since WHEN did you guys care about this kind of thing anyway? The next time the Local Church makes themselves relevant to the community around them will be the first time. First time for everything I guess.

11. To gain an unprecedented number of college and high school students through a prevailing labor on the campuses with students spear-heading and full-timers and families supporting the work (Psa. 110:3; Matt. 4:19-20; 1 Tim. 4:12).
12. To thrust out continuous contingents of workers, full-time serving ones of all ages, into the Lord's harvest to gather fruit and bring in the sheaves here and worldwide (Psa. 126:6; Luke 10:2; John 4:38).

“continuous contingents”…say that 3 times real fast.

13. To raise up the next generation of serving saints, the young adults, by increasing their enrollment in the full-time training and by perfecting them to be normal, vital, and overcoming ones to be as pillars in the churches (Rom. 12:11; Eph. 4:12; Rev. 3:12).

“full-time training” -- “normal” Yikes! This really puts the moron in oxymoron! Really guys, have you seen any of the material and video’s of this little faux seminary? And they are pretending that this is some kind of comprehensive Christian education? “Vital and overcoming” would be about the last words that came to mind when the vast majority of Christian leaders saw what is happening to these precious young lives at the FTT.

14. To work out the New Testament priesthood of the gospel and the practice of the God-ordained way of every member begetting, nourishing, perfecting, and prophesying for the building up of the Body (John 15:16; 21:15; Rom. 15:16).

This looks like something straight out of the pages of some Witness Lee outline. Lot’s of god-talk here, not much substance.

15. To empower the saints to stand against the schemes of Satan, the stratagems of the devil, and the work of the enemy, and to defeat the rulers of darkness and forces of evil in the heavenlies that opposes God's move on the earth (2 Cor. 2:11; Eph. 6:10-12)

Again, no problems till the “God’s move on the earth” part. You see, no real move of God on earth has to worry much about the schemes of Satan, the stratagems of the devil or the work of the enemy because the saint who are really familiar with the Word of God can see and discern them without much trouble. The way to get empowered to stand against these things is the know the Word of God and not the teachings of a man.

[OBW]

Items 5 and 6 stand out immediately to me.

First #5. The very claim that LC theology is a "complete and high gospel" is simply ridiculous. Lee and the LC are the ones that gutted the gospel of its practical sanctification and turned it into a gospel of "inner life," meaning inner feelings. Do the "spiritual" things prescribed by Nee/Lee/BBs and you will experience a wonderful church life. That will one day overflow into your practical life. Don't worry about it now.

Too bad that Matthew recorded the so-called "Great Commission" to be about making disciplined followers who would be taken through a ritual of baptism and taught to obey. Actually not much there about "experiencing Christ" or anything about a "wonderful church life." I do not deny that we do experience Christ, but it is not listed anywhere I find as being the primary endeavor of a Christian.

Then #6. I would be among the first to suggest that "every word that proceeds from the mouth of God" might reasonably be considered more than those words that have been captured as scripture. But any such additional words that would proceed from His mouth would be consistent with the ones that He has spoken and caused to be written down and accepted as scripture. In other words, there is room for interpretation but that room is not outside the bounds of what the scripture actually says.

So when the LC says "especially the interpreted word, the deeper truths, and the ministry of the age" they are clearly suggesting that there is something not in scripture that you need their "another testament" to see and understand. Clearly there are things in the NT that stand in opposition to certain portions of the OT. The agreement was changed. But God has not provided a third agreement, so any interpretation must stand square-on with the existing scripture of the NT and OT (as modified by the NT). When you are encouraged to read the "interpreted word" more than the scripture, there is much concern that what you are led to understand may not be "interpreted word" but instead alternate word. My analysis of too many of the things I was taught is that it was often alternate to, and not consisitent with, the scripture.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by UntoHim

9. To silence and turn the opposers and critics of the recovery and the ministry by opening and enlightening their inner eyes and by granting them a just heart and fair discernment of the facts and the truth (1 Tim. 1:16; 2 Tim. 2:25; 3:9).

Presently, I do not have the time to fully contribute on this point. Right now I wish to raise these questions.
What is the context of an opposer? Is it someone who opposes the recovery comprehensively? Or is it someone who doesn't oppose the recovery, but opposes specific decision making of the leadership?
What is the context of the critics?
My perception of this board, localchurchdiscussions.com doesn't exist if the recovery wasn't valued or appreciated. It doesn't exist if there was a forum for geniune discussion. Fellowship is not flowing one direction. Fellowship is mutual.
Many here may not oppose the recovery comprehensively, but do object to specific decisions and specific speaking made by ministry leaders. Does it make saints who no longer meet in the local churches opposers to the recovery? Not by my definition. Perhaps our brothers that lead LSM and DCP view any objections to decisions or speaking made by the blended brothers as opposers of the recovery?
This is it until later....

Terry

[UntoHim]

Originally Posted by Terry

My perception of this board, localchurchdiscussions.com doesn't exist if the recovery wasn't valued or appreciated.

I can say amen to this, kind of.
Actually I have about zero appreciation for the religion of the Local Church at this point. The dear members are ALL greatly valued and appreciated, as are all the members of the genuine Body of Christ which is his church. Your point is well taken Terry.

It doesn't exist if there was a forum for geniune discussion. Fellowship is not flowing one direction. Fellowship is mutual.

This IS a forum for genuine discussion! I think...I hope....

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by UntoHim

This IS a forum for genuine discussion!

Whether I see eye to eye with my fellow brethren on this board or not, the discussions are genuine.

Terry

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by UntoHim

9. To silence and turn the opposers and critics of the recovery and the ministry by opening and enlightening their inner eyes and by granting them a just heart and fair discernment of the facts and the truth (1 Tim. 1:16; 2 Tim. 2:25; 3:9).

It is apparent that any brother or sister who raises an objection is termed either an opposer or a critic. So these dear saints should be silenced with prayer and prayer by itself is inadequate. There needs to be love and compassion.
Enough of speaking where a brother by name is called "a man of death". Prayer won't silence critics when this type of speaking is happening. This manner of speaking expresses spite and malice and is a far cry from love and compassion.

I offer the final portion of the article Ichabod as found at:

http://truedsicernment.com/2007/11/21/ichabod/

"The Bible paints a grim scenario with regard to what happens when the Spirit of God departs, doesn’t it? Well, I have some good news. There is a solution.

I believe that such a scenario could be turned around. God wants His servants to finish the race. He does not take joy in seeing them defeated.Do you recall the words of Jesus when He spoke to the church at Ephesus as recorded in Revelation 2? [3] While the members of the church were noted for saying what was right, in their zeal to be right, they were wrong. In fact it almost seems as if the Spirit of God had departed from their midst

This can be deduced by reading what Jesus said. He was warning that He would depart from their midst. Jesus said that the church at Ephesus had “left their first love” and that they needed to “repent” and “return to the place” where they had once been. That means they had departed and did not know it.

Jesus said He would remove the “candlestick” if they did not repent. Clearly Scripture interprets this to mean that Jesus would remove His presence from the church of Ephesus. Did that mean He was about to write “Ichabod” above the door of the church?

The Spirit of God points us to the Word. The Word, Jesus said, is the truth. What we do with the truth is entirely up to us. We can choose to obey or to disobey.

I would pray that every Christian would sincerely ask God for His perspective of where we are and what we are doing. Don’t rely upon the praises of man or the fear of man as a spiritual barometer.

When we stand before the throne all the things we did in the flesh will burn like wood and hay. Only those things that were done when we were led by the Spirit will count.

It is all about getting the right perspective, now.

Before it is too late."

Terry

[Hope]

As I reviewed the 16 point directive for prayer among the so called local churches and coming from the LSM, I did not know whether to cry or laugh. Totally unrecognizable!!! It looks like a legislative agenda or political party platform. Whatever happened to “Our Father …” Or “cast all your care on Him because He cares for you.” Or “In Everything by prayer and supplication let your request be know …” Or “ With all prayer and petition pray at all times in the Spirit, and with this in view, be on the alert with all perseverance and petition for all the saints,”

Where in the New Testament did apostles or elders or any believers put out a 16 point business plan for the new calendar year and ask it be blessed by prayer?

My guess is that during the three special days of prayer there was a lot of discussion as to who would head up which of the 16 points of the new action plan.

Those dear ones do not seem to have a clue as to what is prayer in God’s Administration.

Here in Durham, we are laboring with a group of poor refugees from Nepal and Bhutan. They came as Hindus and we are gradually seeing some of them turning from idols to the living God and Savior Jesus Christ. Among those who have received the Lord we are seeking to help them to go on to know and follow the Lord day by day. Prayer is a key component in our relationship with the Lord and our growth in Christ. Looking at the “beseeching.org” prayer list is worthless for shepherding a new believer in Christ. It seems to me to be more of a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. 1 Cor 13:1, If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. NASB



Lord have mercy on us all!


Hope

[countmeworthy]

Originally Posted by Hope

Here in Durham, we are laboring with a group of poor refugees from Nepal and Bhutan. They came as Hindus and we are gradually seeing some of them turning from idols to the living God and Savior Jesus Christ. Among those who have received the Lord we are seeking to help them to go on to know and follow the Lord day by day. Prayer is a key component in our relationship with the Lord and our growth in Christ. Looking at the “beseeching.org” prayer list is worthless for shepherding a new believer in Christ. It seems to me to be more of a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. 1 Cor 13:1, If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. NASB

May the Holy Spirit continue to guide you and your fellow laborers, HOPE, in giving you words of Wisdom and deeds of kindness under His Anointing to bring them to the Saving POWER and DELIVERANCE through our Lord JESUS, the HOPE of GLORY! Nothing is too difficult for OUR GOD! He drew us to Himself, didn't He? He set us free from our religious bondage, didn't He? Praise, and Glory to our Saviour and KING--Jesus.

[Indiana]

Dear brother Don,

I simply Amen CMW.................

Originally Posted by countmeworthy

May the Holy Spirit continue to guide you and your fellow laborers, HOPE, in giving you words of Wisdom and deeds of kindness under His Anointing to bring them to the Saving POWER and DELIVERANCE through our Lord JESUS, the HOPE of GLORY! Nothing is too difficult for OUR GOD! He drew us to Himself, didn't He? He set us free from our religious bondage, didn't He? Praise, and Glory to our Saviour and KING--Jesus.

[kisstheson]

Amen, dear sister countmeworthy and dear brother Indiana. The report from Durham is really precious.

I appreciate that you prayed for both “words of Wisdom and deeds of kindness under His Anointing”, dear sister cmw. Having attended the Memorial Day Conference in Raleigh/Durham, I heard just a little bit more about how our Lord is moving in His Body in this situation. So many dear saints are functioning in their speaking, greeting, cooking, translation, practical help, acts of kindness, etc. Some of the dear laboring ones are "other" Christians who do not even attend the meetings of the assembly there in Durham. How precious is that! Not many flowery words, not a big show, just a real coordination of love amongst the members of the Body.

[Paul Cox]

Always a gimmick;always a slogan; always a catch-phrase; always a stirring of the waters, and always in the most grandiose of terms. Whatever it takes to keep the servants on the plantation. Yadda, yadda, yadda...

Roger

[Indiana]

Sixteen Points for Prayer?

www.lordsrecovery.us/SixteenPointsAugust1988.pdf

Brothers and sisters in the Local Churches, It is best by far to pray for the original Sixteen Points of fellowship, neglected totally to this day by the “leadership” and the Local Churches.

www.lordsrecovery.us/SixteenPointsAugust1988.pdf

May we wake up! and make straight the way of the Lord.

www.makingstraightthewayofthelord.com

[kisstheson]

Originally Posted by Indiana

Sixteen Points for Prayer?

www.lordsrecovery.us/SixteenPointsAugust1988.pdf

Brothers and sisters in the Local Churches, It is best by far to pray for the original Sixteen Points of fellowship, neglected totally to this day by the “leadership” and the Local Churches.

www.lordsrecovery.us/SixteenPointsAugust1988.pdf

May we wake up! and make straight the way of the Lord.

www.makingstraightthewayofthelord.com

Amen, dear brother Indiana. How good it would be for the leading ones in the LC to get together somewhere and seriously consider and pray over the 16 points from August of 1988. How healing it would be if they would open to the Lord and truly cry out and repent for the mistakes of the past. Just think - if they had such an exercise before the Lord, our dear Lord, full of mercy and grace, could carry out a powerful healing and restoring work and grant them a truly fresh start.

How great is the need in the LSM-loyal LC to replace the terrible spirit of religious jealousy with a spirit of repentance and a spirit of love.