Hear The Cases

[TLFisher]

Following is a recent writing by Steve Isitt I had been included in an email An Appeal for a Ministry of Reconciliation of which current and former leaders in the local churches were included as were selected localities, and selected representatives of Fuller Seminary.
HeartheCases.pdf

[TLFisher]

http://localchurchdiscussions.com/vB...ead.php?t=5135

"The minister at "my" church has been speaking from the two letters to Timothy. You can't touch this in the LC. Receive not an accusation against an elder except with two or three witnesses. I believe it is well established that an accusation with ten accusers does not fly in the LC. They can smear and get rid of ten as well as one. Any accusation in the LC is divisive and they remove all divisions."

The above quote from Lisbon is from post #99 of the linked thread. Due to the teaching/practices of deputy authority, "Do not receive an accusation against an elder except on the basis of two or three witnesses. " is deemed invalid. The Deputy Authority practices supersedes scripture. Sooner or later you will be disciplined if you attempt to bring an accusation to an elder or co-worker (the deputy/delegated authority) by that mattter. You learn not to touch the deputy authority no matter how many witnesses. Read the attached pdf from this thread and you will read one such case.

[Freedom]

I think that the LC is highly prone to situations as described in the document that is posted. I used to wonder why the LC had so many "problems". Well it turns out that everyone is afraid to address problems and therefore problems grow bigger and bigger until you get these bizarre and strange situations.

The elders/coworkers just say that the churches aren't perfect, as if that is some excuse for these situations that hurt people.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by Freedom

I think that the LC is highly prone to situations as described in the document that is posted. I used to wonder why the LC had so many "problems". Well it turns out that everyone is afraid to address problems and therefore problems grow bigger and bigger until you get these bizarre and strange situations.

The elders/coworkers just say that the churches aren't perfect, as if that is some excuse for these situations that hurt people.

The case in Ontario with Mario Sandoval, is indicative leading brothers don't want to touch their peers. When ones such as Mario begin blowing the whistle, then it's time to set ones such as Mario aside. Until that time the offended are tolerated by elders/co-workers.

“Now we realize that every local church must be a police station and that every saint must be a policeman. Many have been reluctant to act as policemen for fear they might cause trouble…. If we see evil deeds but do not function as policemen, then we are not practicing the truth…”

[TLFisher]

Very bizarre how a brother in Samuel Liu who in these testimonies displays consistently anger management issues. How did such a brother get to be in a position of responsibility?

Even blended brother James Lee said, “brothers, Samuel has a sickness; it is the same sickness that his two children have, and if you want to follow him in Ontario, that is up to you.”

What is it that keeps a brother with anger issues exempt from discipline? Seemingly an untouchable. My conclusion is perhaps he or his family had contributed much financially to LSM and that's it's because of financial contribution that enabled him to a function of responsibility that has nothing to do with his spiritual growth. Just the unwillingness to reconcile is an exhibition of a lack of spiritual maturity.

Even James Lee said concerning Mario's plea concerning Samuel Liu, “I am only going to listen to you, since I can’t do anything”. Let me get this straight, James Lee cannot do anything about Samuel Liu, but he can do something about Mario and his wife being prohibited from meeting with the Church in Vista?

From elder in Vista Chris Nerstad: "Bro. James Lee had fellowship with me and told me not to receive you in the meetings of the church in Vista and I respect the fellowship that comes from James Lee.‟

My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

[aron]

Originally Posted by Terry

Very bizarre how a brother in Samuel Liu who in these testimonies displays consistently anger management issues. ... What is it that keeps a brother with anger issues exempt from discipline? Seemingly an untouchable.

I wonder if it is more common with charismatic groups, but from my observation they often exalt the leaders as if they were the special vectors of the "holy fire", or "God's blessing." Then, when the inevitable abuses happen, whether they are monetary, power, sexual, or whatnot, the response becomes, "touch not God's anointed." As if somehow there are two sets of rules, one for the proletariat and one for "God's anointed".

And in rigid, controlling groups like in the Lord's Recovery, those who rule from the podiums also think nothing of reaching into the audience of the rank-and-file and touching them, who in the NT are also God's anointed. In the NT we are all kings, and we are all priests. This is a perversion.