Quote:
Originally Posted by OBW
Under the assumption that Paul received a clear answer (which he said he did) you could stretch to say you are right. But just because someone keeps on asking without receiving is not evidence that the prayer is in vain. Even Jesus commended the widow who returned day-after-day to ask the judge for justice on an issue.
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Possibly, it depends on the circumstance. However the fact that Jesus nor Paul or David prayed more than 3 times is telling. Then there is the warning to not persist too much in case God gives his permissive will not his perfect will.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OBW
Once again, you are stepping back from what I have repeatedly stated and spoken as if I did not. When I say "with their heart" it is within the context of the heart turned toward Christ. Seeking Christ. Your little efforts to undermine my statements are getting a little tiresome.
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I did not get that context because you did not talk about the heart turned toward Christ as such. Your definition of religion to me seemed Christ-less in the sense that it was defined in reference to our own heart and not the object of the worship which should be Christ. Basically I think if something is for Christ it is not religion, if it is not for Christ but ourselves then it is religion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OBW
And are starting to read like internet trolling. Always trying to turn any conversation into something other than what it is. That is something that someone claiming to be a representative of "God's unique move on the earth that has the highest claim to oneness" should not be doing. It smacks of intentionally trying to shove people out of your way so you can have a private sandbox in which to say you are one with those you allow in.
You have two options in response.
1. Admit that you really don't understand the words that I use and start to ask for help in understanding.
2. Admit that you are intentionally being a jerk so that you can undermine others without actually dealing with the substance of the statements they make.
I suspect that it is the latter. And I suspect that you will never admit to either. Just keep up the same old trolling.
Soon, the responses to your posts will start to be "Don't Feed the Troll."
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Just because the discussion naturally flows into a certain direction does not mean it is trolling.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OBW
And here we return to the story Jesus told.
Besides, on what basis do you determine that a prayer that is not answered (as of today) is or is not in vain? It is not simply by the fact that it is not answered. If that was true, then Paul would have been in vain two out of three because he didn't get an answer until the third time. And there is no metric in the Bible defining the acceptable number of times to ask before we "let it go." And there is nothing that makes the number of times the prayer is offered evidence of being vain. That is just stuff you are making up.
In the final analysis you could be right. But between here and the next age, it is not your opinion nor mine that makes anyone's prayer in vain. Especially no target number of prayers on a single topic that can be offered without answer before it becomes vain to ask again. There is no such metric. You are making stuff up whole cloth and trying to pass it off as spiritual. You can keep saying it, but there is nothing that makes what you are saying right. But you keep saying it anyway.
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The principle of three-times is well established in the Bible.
David prayed 3 times a day. Christ prayed 3 times. Paul prayed 3 times. The principle of 3 witnesses. etc.
Please see the "use of three in the bible" here:
https://bible.org/seriespage/3-use-three-bible