[countmeworthy]

ok... my turn IO! I have not addressed your questions as others have although I have shared some thoughts on this thread. Welcome aboard and may God, the Holy Spirit and Father God's Loving and Living Word, Jesus guide, counsel and lead you in the Path of His Righteousness as you seek what He has in store for you.

Originally Posted by immuno_oncology

Briefly about myself: I got saved 3 years ago and entered the "church life"
here in Southern California 9 months ago with my wife, who was born and raised in the "denominations." I started to seek help and answers from the internet (despite being told not to) when my marriage started to suffer, because I had 4-5 meetings per week while I left my wife at home (she attended a different church) and things reached a climax when I attended the winter training this week after my wife seriously voiced her concerns about my negligence.

Here is a big red flag that has bothered me about the LC from even back in the day. I don't know about other denominations, but for some reason, many marriages in the LC suffer from the zealousness of one spouse or family member as opposed to the way other marriages suffer. Many Christian marriages break up just as the worldly marriages break up due to infidelity, finances, drifting away from each other, etc.. but in the LC, many marriages suffer BECAUSE of the LC involvement. The LORD does not want marriages to break up because of HIM. Your marriage has not suffered because of HIM but because of the LC indoctrination. God loves you and your wife and wants you both to love HIM and love each other and love people.

It's encouraging to see you all share your experiences of the LC and even offer advice and hope to those who are on their way out. I told my wife that I probably need to have a long fellowship with the Lord before joining any "churches," because even though I've only been in the LC for 9 months, I received an intense dose of it as a new and zealous young believer.

Takes me back to when I first got saved (through the LC saints in San Diego!) Lots of Love, fellowship, 'newness of life'. etc... nothing and no one else mattered to me but Christ and the LC for about a year or 2. You don't know how I regret pushing away my parents. I was only 21 and they both passed away when I was 23. (nothing to do with me.. they were both sick.) It's just that I know the LC did not want me to cultivate a healthy 'Christian' relationship with them. They wanted me to go to all the meetings etc.... My parents are both with the Lord and I have repented for not loving them like I should have. I look forward to meeting them in heaven.

I was so drawn to the ministry at first because they seemingly had a higher truth and teachings that no other churches had.

This is true. I had never heard the gospel shared or the Word of God shared as it was to me. Back in the day, we had 'gospel or love feasts'. Every Saturday night we held a pot luck followed by gospel singing. After each song, people would pop up and share their testimony of salvation and sometimes their love for the LC. Each gospel message was fresh and insightful for a couple of years. I loved those meetings ! That is where my love for the Lord and the LC grew strongest. That was in 1975. They stopped around 1977/78 I think. I left somewhere in 1978-79.

1. Should I throw out the recovery version (with footnotes) of the OT and NT? What version of the bible did you use before the recovery version was introduced? What do you use now?

I personally don't read the RcV because of the footnotes. I only have a NT version given to me by an LCr in 1995. When I came into the LC in 1975, we used the KJ and NASB. I have many scriptures embedded in my spirit and heart from those translations. We used to sing psalms from the KJ and I still sing those psalms. Not everything from the LC was bad. The Presence of the LORD was there in 1975 and 1976 for sure. I did not even know what the Presence of the Lord was but when people came for the first time, so many commented at the 'Glow' and 'Shine' we had. It WAS real because we did love God and love the church.

So often times when I speak / pray the Word back to our Father, our Creator Jesus, I speak from the NASB and KJ. I leave out the Thee's and Thou's but sometimes for fun I insert them. That's not to say I don't make up my own personal prayers. I do that too. I read from the New Living Translation, God's Word Translation, Easy to Read version. But the hard copies I have here at home are KJ, (I still have my original one from the LC days) NASB and the RcV NT. I also have a Dake's bible. And Wow...talk about footnotes!!! He outdoes Lee by a gazillion miles!!! I also use Clarence Larkin's books to study prophesy. He has some excellent commentaries imho, on Daniel and Revelation. Good stuff.

But I use the internet to help me search the meanings of different biblical topics as well...plus fellowshipping with believers is helpful. Most of all, I ask the Holy Spirit to help me understand what I don't get. He's AWESOME!! I love GOD, the HOLY SPIRIT!!!!!! PRAISE BE HIS BEAUTIFUL AND GLORIOUS NAME.

2. I have to admit that I was so drawn to the footnotes/interpretations of the pictures in the Bible, such as Adam and Eve (Adam being Christ and Eve being the church), Noah's ark being the Body of Christ so that all believers are saved, being perfected and becoming overcomers in the millennial kingdom while non-perfected Christians will be in outer darkness, etcetc. Do you all still see the truth in this?

Imho, I find much of it IS truthful. <---- former LCrs looking at me.

I do see Adam and Eve as Christ & the church (but not exclusively to the LC). I see the ARK being Christ rather than the body of Christ. The believers are in Christ, the ARK and we are protected from God's Wrath. Now as to the Millenial Kingdom, I have a much different point of view. I don't believe the Bride of Christ will rule and reign ON the earth during the Millenial Kingdom. From what I see in Rev 21, the Bride, the Holy City New Jerusalem that comes down from God, out of heaven never touches the earth. But I won't go into that discussion here. Maybe I'll start a blog on it. Not today though.

3. The concept of "God's eternal economy is for the building of his dwelling place which will consummate in the New Jerusalem" has been wrought into my soul. For the past few months, all I think about everyday is Christ and His Body and nothing else. Are you still under the rulership of this particular heavenly vision of God's economy?

You are definitely a 'newbie' to the LC ! I do miss the kind of fellowship we had from home to home back in the day. To me, I often experienced the 'building up of the church' in our prayer meetings. We built upon one another's prayers. The testimonies (which they now call 'prophesies' or something, were supposed to be built upon the messages. And for a time they were. They were not always. Sometimes people got up and spoke something totally off the wall but if we had the LORD lead, He would have straightened us out. Instead, we got trapped into wanting Lee's approval. While Lee wanted us to fellowship in the homes etc, he did not want us to be real friends with each other. You are experiencing the "love bombing" right now. But once you become really integrated, you'll just be one of them and who will you turn to when you have something pressing on your heart and need a friend to confide in? Don't be surprised if you are told "Turn to your spirit brother."

4. Tripartite man - I was taught that understanding the spirit is the key to everything. Do you guys still "turn to your spirits" and reject the self in order to express Christ, Christ and Christ only?

I don't think about 'turning to my spirit'. I think about the LORD. He is in my thoughts and in everything I do...including watching TV, hanging out with friends, cheering for the San Antonio Spurs or Dallas Cowboys. I am ready to pray at any given moment. I go to sleep thinking about Him, praying to HIM, Thanking HIM, Praising HIM, Blessing HIM, Glorfying HIM..and I wake up the same way. But believe me. I am still a work in progress.

I always and still do hate that phrase 'turn to your spirit'. It is so condescending to me. Why not just say 'Let's Pray'. And lead the prayer. That is how I see us 'turning to the SPIRIT God, Jesus Christ in our spirit'.

As an example, I was frequently taught that human improvements don't matter because only Christ fulfills the highest standard of morality, so all we need to do is "call on the name of the Lord and turn to our spirits!"

Human improvements DO MATTER. Everything takes practice. We have to ask the Lord to help us be the best we can be. To help us in our weakness. To give us strength to do what we find difficult to do. To be patient where we are not.
Of course Christ fulfills the highest standard of Morality! He IS ALL PERFECT AND PURE Mighty GOD. But believe me, if human improvements did not matter, there would not be the military training at the FTT of keeping your drawers neat and clean followed by an INSPECTION of your drawers!


You really think if a brother or sister goes to another brother or sister, or an elder and tells them they are struggling with a particular sin that all will be fine when they are told 'Just TURN TO YOUR SPIRIT brother?"

I was also told that before we were saved, the soul is our person and the spirit is an organ. But after we're saved, the spirit is our person and the soul is our organ, for the purpose of expressing the spirit (Christ).

Yes. I believe this because we are told in 1 Thessalonians 5:23 our being is comprised of spirit, soul and body. Jesus also said in John 4:24 that God is SPIRIT and they (we) that worship HIM must worship Him in spirit and in Truth. The Living Bible puts it like this: For it’s not where we worship that counts, but how we worship—is our worship spiritual and real? Do we have the Holy Spirit’s help? For God is Spirit, and we must have his help to worship as we should.

4. How do you guys pray after leaving the LC? Do you pray to the Lord Jesus or the Father in Heaven? Do you amen after every phrase when someone else is praying?

For many years after leaving the LC, I only addressed God through the Lord Jesus. The LC impressed in me John 14:6 and Acts 7:59. Jesus says "I am the Way, the TRUTH and the LIFE. No one comes to the Father but by Me. And when Stephen was being stoned, he said "Lord Jesus. Receive my spirit'. (Stephen did not say "FATHER. Receive my spirit. And btw, this revelation of Stephen's prayer did not come to me from the LC. The revelation came to me from the Holy Spirit Himself.)
While the LC impressed on me these scriptures, so did THE HOLY SPIRIT. So I am very good with addressing my prayers to the LORD JESUS.

That said, over the last few years, I have learned to address many of my prayers to GOD, THE HOLY SPIRIT. I never used to pray to God the Father or God the Holy Spirit. Only to God, the Lord Jesus. But when I began to talk to God by saying "Holy Spirit. I need Your Help in this matter." WOW. My relationship with Almighty God began to grow deeper. I am still working on my relationship with God the FATHER. I do pray to Him now. But I don't know HIM as a daughter knows and has a good relationship with her Father.
Working on it though..with The SPIRIT'S and the WORD'S Help.

Also. While I do have personal prayers, I pray the Word of God back to HIM a LOT. I don't know if the LC still pray reads with all their emphasis on the footnotes, but we used to take the scriptures and pray read them. It was a way of memorizing them as well as getting the Word really rooted and grounded in us in a meaningful way..not simply quoting them. Anyway, as an example as how I pray sometimes. I often remind the LORD this: LORD JESUS. YOU are the Way, the TRUTH AND THE LIFE. YOU CAME THAT I / we WOULD HAVE LIFE AND HAVE IT MORE ABUNDANTLY. Thank You for Your Promise. (If I am super grateful for a Blessing I received, I rejoice like nobody's business. But if I am frustrated with my life at the moment, I will add: NOW.. since Your Word Father says that Jesus came that I would have Life and have it MORE abundantly, what kind of LIFE is this that I'm having??? That's how I 'turn to my S/spirit!!!"

As you can see from my questions, all of the above is still so fresh and vivid in my mind (soul?). In my experience, I met some of the most devoted Christians in my life in the past few months in the LC. They were so serious about the Bible, so welcoming and loving to my wife and me and certainly took care of us. The brothers and sisters that I've encountered absolutely love the Lord and have a strong grasp of biblical knowledge and of course, LSM knowledge.

Great, great questions IO. Thank you for asking them! It has also been my experience that the initial love pouring found in the LC is like no other. There is a strong grasp of biblical knowledge but remember there is a difference of spouting out the biblical knowledge taught by Lee or any other ministry and the biblical knowledge imparted into us by the Spirit of God Himself. For example. I remember going over Jesus being the Bread of Life in the LC. But many months into praying and studying the bible, did I have the personal revelation that Jesus IS indeed the Bread of Life.

As my marriage started to suffer in recent months, I finally begin to see that there is a powerful and organized system behind the LC and it is the system that I'm against.

See?? There is something not right with the LC if marriages suffer because of it. There is a controlling spirit, a stronghold behind the LC and it is not God's HOLY SPIRIT. It is a religious spirit that uses God's Word. It is the spirit of Witness Lee. The LC venerates him and to a lesser extent Watchman Nee. When I began to see this happening in 1978, I knew I had to leave. It was hard. I snuck out. But with God's help I am set free now.

In a prayer with the Lord 3 nights ago, He somehow gave me the intuition to google the following: "Witness Lee's son." By the Lord's grace and mercy, I was taken to this forum as well as others.

Hee- hee. That was God,the HOLY SPIRIT speaking to You and sharpening your intuition!!! He's the SPIRIT in your spirit ! Oh How I love how the HOLY SPIRIT speaks to us !!!! He is SO AWESOME!!! I JUST LOVE THE HOLY SPIRIT !!!!!!!!! He is the VOICE of God the Father. Jesus Christ is the WORD of God the Father. The Father is the GLORY. Praise be to HIM always and forever!!

God Bless you, your wife and loved ones IO. And may this coming year be a year of Blessing above all expectation from our Loving FATHER GOD, HIS SPIRIT AND HIS WORD. Happy new year !

Carol