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Old 08-20-2018, 10:40 AM   #49
Drake
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Default Re: The Mormon Church is "The Church"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness View Post
So to you the verse and context means that someone born of the Spirit is as real as the wind?

Interesting. Thanks.
Not exactly.

All people are real.. obviously... but this verse is not talking about how real they are.... that would be over simplistic...rather, a regenerated person is different and their reality is not something you can always put your finger on. The "real" in the case of a regenerated person is like the wind... can't see it but you know something is there because you can hear it or see its effect. So, its not a statement that people born of the Spirit are real like all people are, believer and unbeliever alike. Rather, this is specifically about regenerated people and the reality of their regeneration.

That the Lord used sound as the evidence of the wind may have something to do with the testimony of He and his disciples mentioned in V11. They were making a sound and Nicodemus recognized it but could not define it exactly... so he seeks Jesus out to find out more and the Lord appears to be saying to Nicodemus something like ... we speak, you recognize something that you could not precisely define, and what you heard from us is mysterious just like the wind, you're not sure where it came from or where it is going but it is a fact and a reality.

Something like that.

Hope that helps... but in any case, I still don't see how it has anything to do with your initial counsel. Got the truth will set you free... but still don't understand how you meant "be as the wind" when applied to Christians in the local churches.... even using a different definition of what the "wind" is ... that may be because I don't know what your definition if "wind" is.

Feel free to clarify.

Drake
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