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Originally Posted by Evangelical
Clearly the first church was larger than two or three. If the church had 300 in it ZNP would probably conclude that this is 100 churches!
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Either you do not understand what I have shared or you are intentionally distorting what I have shared. Despite previous cases of your intentionally distorting my words I will respond to this misunderstanding. If it persists I will call you a liar.
I see one church, not two, three, or 300. Yes, a meeting of 2 or 3 is a gathering of the called out ones. But in the picture provided by the NJ these are small gatherings within the walls of the one church typified by the NJ. The boundary of this one church is the fellowship of the Apostles. Therefore, even if there were 300 different gatherings within a city, as long as they are all within the boundaries of the fellowship of the apostles they are one with all other gatherings. As a result a single person could be in a variety of these meetings and be one with all of the believers in these various meetings.
Witness Lee taught that each "church" was delineated by the boundary of a city. But the practicality of this teaching has resulted in many contradictions to this teaching by the LRS (Lord's Recovery Sect) in just the last 50 years.
The way I read the New Testament is that a gathering of two or three into the name of Jesus comes with every promise given to the church. There is no limit based on number of attendees. No doubt the church will grow in number and as it does it will grow in functions. You will require overseers, deacons, teachers, prophets, helps, etc. But the reality is that a large gathering of a thousand does not promote the function of believers more than smaller ones. This is where your "common sense" and "logic" collapse. Yes, if you have a gathering of 300 that could be much larger than one of 3 people. But realistically, in a city of 10 million like NYC there must be several million believers. A hundred gatherings of 300 are only 30,000, perhaps less than 1% of the total believers in the city. Yet the "church in NY" rarely has 300 attendees (I used to be the one to count the members and log them into a book).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evangelical
Matt 18 teaches that if we have a problem with a brother that cannot be solved with two or three then we can bring it to the church. This is because the church has governance through the elders which the two or three at home do not have.
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That is not what it teaches, that is the clever story WL tells about what it teaches.
What it teaches is that 2 or 3 can bind on Earth. They do not need to consult with the church to bind on Earth. However, once they do make that decision they are to "tell it to the church" and what has been bound on Earth "will be what has been bound in Heaven".
The church here does not refer to a single locality, but rather the representative of the kingdom of the heavens.
For example, when the Blendeds excommunicated Titus they didn't consult with the church. Instead they "told the church" of their decision. They had the authority to "bind on Earth" regardless of what I or others thought. Also, telling the church did not mean telling a single locality. Instead they wrote a letter to all the believers, regardless of locality. Once we got that letter we were able to fellowship concerning the points to see if it was indeed within the boundary of the apostle's fellowship. I felt it wasn't, wrote a response which was put up on the internet on a site with others who also felt it wasn't. As a result I would disagree with the conclusion that what the Blendeds bound on Earth has been what has been bound in heaven. That proves, in my opinion based on Matt 18, that their decision was not made "in the name of Jesus".
Regardless of how you view that particular case, everyone must agree that when the Blendeds "told it to the church" this was not to a single locality but to all the believers worldwide. Teaching that the reference to "the church" in Matt 18 is referring to a specific locality divides "the church" into hundreds, if not thousands of churches. It is simply a different way of denominating the church.
I don't read it that way. All believers are members of the church. What difference does it make that I meet in Houston, or NY or Taipei? If someone excommunicates a brother I know what difference does it make if I happen to be in the same city or not? I still would like to know what the basis is for this action.