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Old 10-05-2017, 05:41 PM   #32
Evangelical
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Join Date: Aug 2016
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Default The Problem with the Reformers: Not allowing every member to function

While the Reformers themselves contributed much and were used by God to restoring or recovering God's truth to Christianity such as salvation by faith alone, these were not perfect men. In many cases, they were crude, vulgar and violent men and they retained a number of unbiblical beliefs, such as that in church only the priest or pastor can function and the laity cannot. I don't really care about the type of person they were, as I understand that it was common for men to be vulgar and violent in the 16th Century, even Christians - it was a matter of survival or culture. However to retain the dated beliefs that not every member can function is one reason I do not follow the Reformers or the Reformed churches, in particular, Calvinism and Lutheranism. The concept of the "lay preacher" is thought to originate with Arminianism and the work of John Wesley. Although Luther believed in the priesthood of all believers "every man is a priest", this did not seem to carry through to the church services. Today, a Lutheran church service is still very much like a Catholic one, with one notable difference being doing more standing than sitting (I have even observed Lutherans wearing fitness apparel to church and carrying water bottles, as all that standing and sitting must constitute some form of physical workout).

This post by Frank Viola shows the attitude of Luther towards other reformers and the Anabaptists.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/frankvi...fmartinluther/

It explains Luther's views on a Christian's right to stand up and speak in a church meeting:

The Anabaptists believed it was every Christian’s right to stand up and speak in a church meeting. It was not solely the domain of the clergy. Luther was so opposed to this practice that he said it came from “the pit of hell” and those who were guilty of it should be put to death.

In addition, Luther felt that if the whole church publicly administered the Lord’s Supper it would be a “deplorable confusion.” To Luther’s mind, one person must take on this task—the Protestant pastor.


http://www.patheos.com/blogs/frankvi...dTWBJCxWljM.99

The poster who seems stuck in the 1689 era may do well to proclaim the virtues of the Reformation in terms of giving us access to the bible and the various truths it recovered. But in church they might find the pastor telling them to shut up and wait until the end of the service if they want to say something or even shout a holy Amen during the prayer time.

In this sense, there is not much difference between a Catholic Priest who does not allow a church member to function, and a Lutheran Priest who does not allow a church member to function.

This is one reason why we in the local church view the Reformed churches as sub-par according to the truth of the Bible and why the Reformation was not the be all and end all of what God wanted to accomplish.
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