Local Church Discussions - View Single Post - What is the boundary of the Local Church?

Evangelical · 03-06-2018, 01:28 PM

What is being discussed about apostles and miracles is not unlike a problem the Reformation faced. The Catholic church was rife with miracles and signs and wonders, which apparently confirmed their authenticity, yet Luther and Calvin had to stand upon God's Word alone.

For this reason it is interesting that some are using the "signs and wonders" argument to argue against Witness Lee being an apostle. This is similar to how the Catholics argue against Luther and Calvin for not working any miracles, thus "God does not approve or endorse the Reformation".

While the apostle Paul clearly worked miracles and this was used in some way to confirm his status as an apostle, let us consider that:

- there is no indication that all the apostles worked miracles (e.g. Apollos etc, and any of the other lesser known apostles, there were about 20 that we know of).

- the ability to work miracles is stated in the Bible as a gift separate to and less than the gift of apostleship:

1 Corinthians 12:18:

And God has placed in the church first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, of helping, of guidance, and of different kinds of tongues.

It is possible that Paul and other apostles had the gift of miracles as well, but based on 1 Cor 12:18 it must be possible to have only the gift of an apostle and not of miracles, since miracles is listed as a separate gift. It is also possible to work miracles but not have the gift of apostleship.

Notice that the gift of tongues is also in this list - perhaps Paul spoke in tongues the most as he said "I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than you all.", but this does not mean that ALL the apostles had the ability to speak in tongues:

1 Cor 12:30 (NLT)
Do we all have the gift of healing? Do we all have the ability to speak in unknown languages? Do we all have the ability to interpret unknown languages? Of course not!

Based on 1 Cor 12:30 and 1 Cor 12:18 we may infer that not every apostle could work miracles.

03-06-2018, 01:28 PM	#355
Evangelical Member Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 3,965	Re: What is the boundary of the Local Church? What is being discussed about apostles and miracles is not unlike a problem the Reformation faced. The Catholic church was rife with miracles and signs and wonders, which apparently confirmed their authenticity, yet Luther and Calvin had to stand upon God's Word alone. For this reason it is interesting that some are using the "signs and wonders" argument to argue against Witness Lee being an apostle. This is similar to how the Catholics argue against Luther and Calvin for not working any miracles, thus "God does not approve or endorse the Reformation". While the apostle Paul clearly worked miracles and this was used in some way to confirm his status as an apostle, let us consider that: - there is no indication that all the apostles worked miracles (e.g. Apollos etc, and any of the other lesser known apostles, there were about 20 that we know of). - the ability to work miracles is stated in the Bible as a gift separate to and less than the gift of apostleship: 1 Corinthians 12:18: And God has placed in the church first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, of helping, of guidance, and of different kinds of tongues. It is possible that Paul and other apostles had the gift of miracles as well, but based on 1 Cor 12:18 it must be possible to have only the gift of an apostle and not of miracles, since miracles is listed as a separate gift. It is also possible to work miracles but not have the gift of apostleship. Notice that the gift of tongues is also in this list - perhaps Paul spoke in tongues the most as he said "I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than you all.", but this does not mean that ALL the apostles had the ability to speak in tongues: 1 Cor 12:30 (NLT) Do we all have the gift of healing? Do we all have the ability to speak in unknown languages? Do we all have the ability to interpret unknown languages? Of course not! Based on 1 Cor 12:30 and 1 Cor 12:18 we may infer that not every apostle could work miracles.