Quote:
Originally Posted by Drake
Okay. Thanks for the clarification.
Here's the thing, Igzy.. When you juxaposed that comment between points one and three it is perfectly congruent with that same line of thinking. For instance, you talk about the self just being what our attitude is toward it. You contradict the Lord's direct command to deny yourself. And smack dab in the middle of those two gems you make this comment about making ourselves gods. It's all man-centered doctrine no matter how you look at it.
Drake
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Well, you might have asked for a clarification before you went off like I'm some sort of John Denver "we are gods" self-worshiper. I mean, I'd loved "Rocky Mountain High," but I'm not that high.
As for denying one's self.
It does not take place in a vacuum or without context. Doing so is always in the context of obeying God. That's why I said denying the self is really just obeying the Spirit. If you make denying your self an absolute then you'd never say "yes" to "would you like a bowl of ice cream?" or anything else that would make you happy. But, of course, that's ultimately absurd because what if denying your self makes you happy? Then you couldn't deny your self because to deny your self would be pleasing to your self.
So it's relative to obedience. It's not an absolute. When Jesus said hate your life, he meant hate anything that keeps you from God. He didn't mean it in an absolute sense, just like he really didn't actually mean for anyone to cut off their hand if it offends. He meant be serious about anything that keeps you from God.
Actually, I remember Witness Lee going off on a rant in a training. He said deny "whatever makes you happy." I'm not kidding! I remember the brother sitting next to me chuckling and saying, "I had to laugh at that one!" Lee was completely clueless sometimes, which is probably where you get it. All his talk about the "self" and the "soul" and the "old man" and the "natural man" and the "self life" and all that was just him acting like he knew what he was talking about when he really didn't.
God loves himself. We are in the image of God. So at some level we should love ourselves, too. And there is no way you could love others, or really care about anything good, if you don't love yourself. Nihilists don't care if the world burns to a crisp with everyone in it including themselves. They are really "denying themselves," albeit in the most UNHEALTHY way.