Originally Posted by Igzy
Alright then, simply a misunderstanding. Most LCers when they speak of "the ministry" are speaking of Lee's ministry. Very few people I know of use the term in the way you do. So it's confusing.
Olvin: I love this saying, and believe it applies at least to you Igzy; "It is hard to get someone to understand the truth when their livelihood depends on them not understanding it" since this seems your life mission to date, to lambast the ministry of WL.
You are confused because you don't study to show yourself approved. You presume to talk about spiritual things yet you don't refer to scripture. You criticize WL for using terms like nature and metabolic saying; "there are better
definitions than he gave". Like? The scripture says; we have been made partakers of the divine NATURE in Peter. Romans 5 reminds us that we were made i.e. constituted sinners (use your Strong,s concordance if you own one) , thats WAS our nature. FYI thats what it means to be born again, we get a new life. Every life has it's own nature, God's is holy, ours was sinful - remember.
You will need your Strong's for this one too; 1Cor.15 and Romans 8 uses the word transformation i.e. metamorphoo - get it. But of course you have a better definition. You say "it's more about God changing your charACTOR".
I know you will hate this because it was taught to me by TC. He said you can tame a horse, even make him to dance, but you can't make a horse a dancer.
Get someone to explain that one to you.
But if "the ministry" is general then your initial point was moot. If ministry simply means the ongoing revelation of God through all his ministers, then I don't understand why you asked what have we have received beyond that, because by simple definition there is nothing else.
Olvin: Brother am glad the early church fathers did not have your "simple definition"; remember the line in Luther's hymn " the Lord has much more light and truth to break forth from His Word"
But it's not like you can ascribe that ministry to anyone special. It comes from God. Neither do I think we can categorize ministers that easily and say "these are part of the ministry and these aren't." Sometime Lee was part of it, and sometimes he wasn't. Sometimes I am and sometimes I'm not. Same with you, I'll wager.
Olvin: Have you ever heard the name Polycarp, or Justin Martyr, or Irenaus, or Origen, Tertullian, Augustine, these and many more all of which were 1000 years before the reformers. I don't need to give a short list of them; do I?
You have to read a little church history to know these things. Pilgrim's Church, and Miller's Church History is someplace you should start if your are really concerned about understanding the ministry. We CAN ascribe that ministry to everyone special, WL included. These were all faithful men not perfect men.
Do you understand the difference?
I think everyone here thought you were lifting up Lee.
Olvin: I was lifting up Lee, along with all those other faithful men to whom the word was committed, who were able to teach others also. Are you clear now?
And just like those mentioned and unmentioned, most, most at some point became a factor of division, and scandal, even the cause of death for many precious saints.
Why don't I answer those questions you asked? Because there are too many of them. Ask me one question and I'll answer it. Although try not to make them of the "are you still beating your wife" category.
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