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Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!
Thanks for the replies to my post(s) on here. We've been real busy with work this week and I do intend to respond accordingly, but wanted to consider some verses, pray and fellowship with someone else too regarding this.
I will say I suspect this may be a Calvinism/Armenian type thing where there are at least two valid aspects of the same thing . . .
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Well, I do believe they are two aspects of the same thing but also believe that you can't separate them.
We fallible humans take up one side or the other and use it to try to condemn people who look at it imperfectly from another angle. Best to just believe the Bible, period.
Jesus said we COULD be condemned even after professing belief in Him and doing a lot of works in His name - the gospels make this plain, when He said those who eat/drink with the drunken and beat their fellow slaves will be "cut into pieces and have their portion with the hypocrites". That doesn't sound much like salvation, to me; it is reminder to us that we need to be humble and not take the matter of our walk lightly. I think we have a human responsibility to be humble and to walk out our faith, and that we could even lose our salvation if we don't. "Faith without works is dead", says James. You can't save yourself but that doesn't mean you can't do things resulting in judgment/punishment after you have professed faith, and the Bible never says God CAN'T take your salvation away if He chooses (saying God CAN'T do anything is a recipe for disaster, I believe we don't get to say some salvation prayer once and then we have a magical "gotcha" card against God's judgment - the Bible tells us plainly to fear Him who can destroy our very soul). This is where I believe in Arminianism/syncretism.
On the other hand I also believe God is sovereign and can elect to FULLY save somebody, eternally, by His power alone, and that we can have faith that He knows all our weaknesses and our failings and is fully able to get us through them and even save us unto eternal salvation. How could He do that if we need to depend on Him eternally but we can fail and depend on so many other things? I don't know - I just believe the answer is God Himself. I believe He knew us before time itself was created and elected us and it wasn't up to us, in that sense. This is where I believe in Calvinism/fatalism.
Here's a simple way to look at it. You are drowning in the ocean with a 1,000 pound dead goat you really loved in the past chained to your leg and no way to get it off. A man in a huge boat comes along. You have NO way to save yourself and no way to get the dead goat off your leg. Only the man in the boat can save you. He tosses you the key and says "get rid of the dead goat and come on my boat, I want to save you but I don't allow dead goats on my ship". You now have a choice, take off the dead goat and climb on the boat, or not. If you don't take off the dead goat (repent), you will die in the ocean. If you DO get on the boat, the man will tell you - okay, you are totally safe here; just STAY on the boat until it reaches land and do what I say. I'm the captain. When we reach land you'll be totally safe and in my kingdom forever, but if you get off the boat and don't repent and ask me to come back and get you back on the boat, you will die and have your portion with those who didn't take off the dead goat.
So stay on the boat, listen to the Captain and do what he says (live out your faith, don't be a hypocrite), and realize you couldn't do a single thing to accomplish your salvation at ALL. That was totally up to the Captain. He did not take your free will away and you can still jump off the boat if you are still so stupidly/stubbornly inclined, so be afraid and ask Him for His help/wisdom so you don't do that.
(Here's a nice picture that I believe helps to fully explain the gospel truth given by Jesus.)
I believe we have both a true free will and a totally sovereign God. The Bible doesn't lie. Rather, men take up their doctrinal interpretations and love them more than the truth and that's where we run into trouble.