Rev 3:5 "
He who overcomes will thus be clothed in white garments; and I will not erase his name from the book of life, and I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels."
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Originally Posted by countmeworthy
This is a very profound verse because it says the overcomer's name will not be erased from the book of Life. Did you all discuss what that means exactly? I recall a pastor using that scripture to prove a person could lose their salvation. Their name could be erased from the book of Life meaning it once was there but God blotted it out.
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Good afternoon Sister!
Good to hear from you too, and I want to say that I have enjoyed the things you've shared lately as well - you are always an encouragement in your love of the Lord.
As for your question - well, that's probably one of THE most controversial questions asked in Christian Theological circles around the world - and too often (unfortunately, in my view) those who have an opposing view label the other a heretic. In fact, the view that believers could lose their salvation (an Arminian point of view) was
officially declared a heresy by the Synod of Dordecht in 1618-1619. That said, we live in a town which has launched Missions around the world through our Bible College (the longest such established in Canada).... and missionaries are more often (I am told) Arminian in their thinking... and some of them certainly feel that Calvinism (which teaches Perseverance of the Saints) is a heresy.
The Bible Study of which my wife and I are a part is not advocating any one particular school of thought; not advocating any particular view apart from what the Full Council of Scripture teaches (and we admit that in some matters, that may be up for debate - and
respectful debate is healthy). What we have is daily homework to do; working through the passages for that week, exploring related passages, and considering what the histories (esp. pertinent in the case of the book of Revelation) teach us about the cities to whom the letters were written, the condition of those cities, the populace, it's wealth, and (ultimately) what became of it. We get together then on Tuesday evenings to review, to share as individuals, and to pray and to launch into the next section.
Your question is
definitely worth discussing, but this isn't the right thread for that. It's a question that has spurred many volumes and arriving at either answer really does require the Full council of Scripture - because, I believe, God has spoken throughout His Word about the nature of our Salvation... and if any one passage seems to conflict with the view we are given elsewhere in Scripture, and we truly believe that Scripture is inerrant and that God is the same yesterday, today, and forever, then we are misinterpreting something, or reading out of context.
Quote:
Originally Posted by countmeworthy
I do not believe they will lose their salvation if they truly believe Jesus is the Messiah and IS GOD and confessed His Name with a repentant heart at some point.
If they have chosen not to live sanctified lives, I believe they will not receive all the rewards that overcomers receive.
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This is a more specific statement that you're making, and I just want to say that this point of view isn't really Calvinism either. Calvinism, which teaches that all human beings are
Totally depraved (evil in essence, as children of Adam and enemies of God) a
Limited number of whom (by God's own choosing), while yet sinners, are
Unconditionally Elected by the Sovereign God for Salvation, and so He calls them by His
Irresistible Grace and holds them in his hands to ensure that none the Father gives to the Son will ever be lost, but will instead
Persevere to the end.
The real problem which Arminians tend to have with these tenets of Calvinism are that they believe Calvinists are teaching what you've suggested; that a person who only "confessed His name with a repentant heart at one point" but who "have chosen not to live sanctified lives" can actually have ever been saved. The truth is, Calvinism allows for a believer to "backslide" for a period of time, but ultimately, God's grace is irresistible, and He disciplines his own as a father does his sons (and daughters). God does the work through the life of the Elect to conform them to the image of His Son Jesus Christ; and will continue to work circumstances in the lives of His children to draw them back to Himself.... I believe we see evidence of this throughout Scripture in the lives of the Old and New Testament saints.... and I can personally testify that He did it in my own life. I made a confession with a repentant heart when I was a teenager, but I walked a dark road (drugs, drinking, illicit sex) and even denied His name for many years. I didn't come back to Him because of any merit of my own. The truth is, even when I told Him I wanted nothing to do with Him (in very graphic terms) and I didn't believe in Him any longer, He
never let me go. He brought me back to Himself, using some pretty painful tools to get me there... and thank You Lord that You did!
Our God is an Awesome God, isn't He Carol?
...And finally, look again at the promises given to the Overcomers:
You receive Eternal life, not perishing.
You receive Christ Himself (the Holy Spirit, as a seal)
You receive A new name (as a new creation?)
You receive white garments (washed in the blood of the Lamb)
You will dwell with Christ in His Temple
You will rule and reign with Christ
Question: Can you imagine any Christian not receiving any one of these things? Can a Christian perish, and not live eternally? Can a Christian be a Christian if he doesn't have Christ or the Holy Spirit? Can a Christian NOT be a new creation in Christ? Can a Christian still walk unclean in crimson stained garments, disdaining the cleansing of Christs blood to wash him of his sins? Can a Christian be left out of the Temple, the Body of Christ, or not go to be with Him? Can a Christian NOT rule and reign with Christ?