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Curious · 12-29-2019, 12:40 AM

Responding to:

ShepherdingWords.com.
Under; ‘Articles’
‘Newly added articles’
‘Twisting Ron Kangas ‘s Words’ posted on Dec 16 2019.

My responses to their 4 main points are quoted here, from their published document. My comment on the rest of their article does not include quotes from their article.

Point 1. ‘Some claim authority for themselves because they are married to a co-worker or an elder. They crown themselves, saying “you are a co-worker now and so am I. We are a team.”’

Implicit in this statement is a worldly concept of authority. ‘She’ is ‘crowning herself’ to share in her husband’s ministry. To be a co-worker or elder, is therefore, to wear a ‘crown? Why?.... No matter the reason, it’s clear, in the LC, co-workers and elders wear crowns because they have authority. Such a status imputes a crown. And men and women should not work together as a team if they are married. If it’s her idea its wrong, even if her husband supports her in it, as further points reveal, its still wrong.

I know a husband and wife who run a Christian ministry together as a team. They both share a heart for the calling of this ministry, their giftings and strengths are complimentary. This is great for their relationship and the ministry they run, to my knowledge. I have never thought of either of them ‘wearing crowns’ and neither have they. Thinking in such terms seems to focus on status and authority in a worldly and not Christ-like way. I wonder why ‘shepherding words’ assumes that a married couple working together as a team is a bad thing, and that only the man can ‘wear the crown’ of authority. All an unnecessary focus on domination and submission.

(Even more ‘horrifying’ to the LC mentality, this ministry has many, many couples, teamed together, as couples in their roles, it’s a norm for them! They would be totally puzzled and perplexed if you suggested anything unchristian, or even fundamentally problematic about it.)

Furthermore, later in the document, RK adds the idea that to be crowned is to be exalted, and to being damaged by being exalted. This gets weirder. It would seem he believes that he can wear a crown and be thereby exalted, without being damaged by it. To exalt a sister in this way, any sister at all, is ‘improper’, but to do so to a brother is not? No reason given, except the arbitrary idea of being ‘proper’, which explains nothing at all.

Point 2 ‘The brother may make the big mistake of fostering this kind of concept in his wife. He may even exalt her, telling others, “Listen to her. She knows how to pray with authority’…. (Why not say ‘effectively’ rather than ‘with authority’? The language used is all about power and control)….. ‘She knows how to pray prayers of spiritual warfare.” In contrast, those who really know how to pray in this way, simply pray in this way. They do not boast or talk about it.’

Its another great sin for a person to state their interest and area of gifting in order to seek a role in the church that fits. To do so is bad in two ways. First it is ‘boasting’ (boasting is a motivation, not the act itself, you can’t judge motivation in this way, unless you are very silly) and second it is to… ‘talk’…..what? so to talk is bad. To communicate relevant information straightforwardly and clearly…this makes no sense, making a sin out of nothing. A good husband values his wife’s giftings and seeks to support her in having an outlet for it. but in the LC that’s a bad thing.

Rather it seems that this idea promotes shame. To be too ashamed to mention you believe God might use your gifting within the work seems noble in the world of the LC. I think this stinks, and produces frustration and a sense of inadequacy, inferiority and shame in people. (To use RK’s own words), damaging them!

Rather, when we honour Jesus then one of the things He does in return is He honours the investment he has put in us, to let it flourish. This is part of His plan and purpose in the way He made us, to be placed like a gem or precious stone, in the ‘setting’ of the Body. The stone is revealed in its best when in the setting it was designed for. We are all precious stones in this way, in the Body of Christ, where He shines through us.

Point 3 ‘Some females usurp authority. They claim to be the spiritual head over their husbands. They turn everything upside down. This has actually happened.’

People who are suppressed and controlled will find ways to empower themselves. Those who are oppressed will learn, over time, to trade in power, and will play the game to seek the advantage. The negative side of their giftings is what they’ll use for this end, and you’ll find yourself locked in a subversive battle. A win/loose battle, that reflects nothing of Jesus but is all about survival at the expense of the other.

Point 4 ‘The husband may give in to such a usurping wife. He may even take the lead to rebel….a certain man….appointed three sisters to be leading sisters, including his wife. They and the women who followed them caused some of the most painful and traumatic suffering that we have ever experienced. Eventually, Brother Lee said, “this is a cancer”. They rejected Brother Lee’s fellowship, but the Lord cut that cancer out of the body.

Only because these women were ‘leading’, ‘pain, trauma and suffering’ happened, and they became a ‘cancer’? (who experienced this pain and trauma? It’s not included on this forum as part of the grievances of those who have left that I have noticed). Only women who accept their place in this system will not find this a demeaning attitude.

Queen Elizabeth the first was arguably the best monarch England has had, and certainly had the wisdom and insight needed at that time, unlike her father. Deborah lead Israel. We can’t ignore these testimonies against the claims of the LC.

The rest of the Article:

There is so much funny stuff in the first section of this document that the attempt at mopping it up just doesn’t work. RK has declared his wife to be ‘nothing’, not ‘her gifting and calling lie elsewhere in the ministry’. You can’t really fudge that. I don’t know that sharing in her husband’s ministry will damage her, but such words definitely would. How can you be nothing when you are fearfully and wonderfully made? When Jesus valued you enough to die for you?

Next. Miriam and Aron. They criticized Moses due to the familiarity of being his siblings, not because Miriam was a woman. The fact of her being female seems neither directly or indirectly relevant to the story at all. If it is, then someone please explain that to me. She received punishment and Aron didn’t, the bible doesn’t explain why, so it’s up to us to either guess, speculate, or ask for revelation. Maybe God did it that way because He just doesn’t like women!!!! (I don’t agree with that idea, by the way, but I suspect some in the LC do!).

The whole article is all about control, and whose got it and who’s not allowed any!!

I suggest a read of the book 'Why not Women' by Loren Cunningham and David Hamilton. It gives history and context to male/female attitudes in the Christian church and in Israel before the time of Christ, for those who haven't researched it before it covers the subject well.

That's my response to this article!

12-29-2019, 12:40 AM	#12
Curious Member Join Date: Jan 2019 Posts: 186	Re: They Actually Try to Defend the Way Ron Kangas Spoke About his Wife Responding to: ShepherdingWords.com. Under; ‘Articles’ ‘Newly added articles’ ‘Twisting Ron Kangas ‘s Words’ posted on Dec 16 2019. My responses to their 4 main points are quoted here, from their published document. My comment on the rest of their article does not include quotes from their article. Point 1. ‘Some claim authority for themselves because they are married to a co-worker or an elder. They crown themselves, saying “you are a co-worker now and so am I. We are a team.”’ Implicit in this statement is a worldly concept of authority. ‘She’ is ‘crowning herself’ to share in her husband’s ministry. To be a co-worker or elder, is therefore, to wear a ‘crown? Why?.... No matter the reason, it’s clear, in the LC, co-workers and elders wear crowns because they have authority. Such a status imputes a crown. And men and women should not work together as a team if they are married. If it’s her idea its wrong, even if her husband supports her in it, as further points reveal, its still wrong. I know a husband and wife who run a Christian ministry together as a team. They both share a heart for the calling of this ministry, their giftings and strengths are complimentary. This is great for their relationship and the ministry they run, to my knowledge. I have never thought of either of them ‘wearing crowns’ and neither have they. Thinking in such terms seems to focus on status and authority in a worldly and not Christ-like way. I wonder why ‘shepherding words’ assumes that a married couple working together as a team is a bad thing, and that only the man can ‘wear the crown’ of authority. All an unnecessary focus on domination and submission. (Even more ‘horrifying’ to the LC mentality, this ministry has many, many couples, teamed together, as couples in their roles, it’s a norm for them! They would be totally puzzled and perplexed if you suggested anything unchristian, or even fundamentally problematic about it.) Furthermore, later in the document, RK adds the idea that to be crowned is to be exalted, and to being damaged by being exalted. This gets weirder. It would seem he believes that he can wear a crown and be thereby exalted, without being damaged by it. To exalt a sister in this way, any sister at all, is ‘improper’, but to do so to a brother is not? No reason given, except the arbitrary idea of being ‘proper’, which explains nothing at all. Point 2 ‘The brother may make the big mistake of fostering this kind of concept in his wife. He may even exalt her, telling others, “Listen to her. She knows how to pray with authority’…. (Why not say ‘effectively’ rather than ‘with authority’? The language used is all about power and control)….. ‘She knows how to pray prayers of spiritual warfare.” In contrast, those who really know how to pray in this way, simply pray in this way. They do not boast or talk about it.’ Its another great sin for a person to state their interest and area of gifting in order to seek a role in the church that fits. To do so is bad in two ways. First it is ‘boasting’ (boasting is a motivation, not the act itself, you can’t judge motivation in this way, unless you are very silly) and second it is to… ‘talk’…..what? so to talk is bad. To communicate relevant information straightforwardly and clearly…this makes no sense, making a sin out of nothing. A good husband values his wife’s giftings and seeks to support her in having an outlet for it. but in the LC that’s a bad thing. Rather it seems that this idea promotes shame. To be too ashamed to mention you believe God might use your gifting within the work seems noble in the world of the LC. I think this stinks, and produces frustration and a sense of inadequacy, inferiority and shame in people. (To use RK’s own words), damaging them! Rather, when we honour Jesus then one of the things He does in return is He honours the investment he has put in us, to let it flourish. This is part of His plan and purpose in the way He made us, to be placed like a gem or precious stone, in the ‘setting’ of the Body. The stone is revealed in its best when in the setting it was designed for. We are all precious stones in this way, in the Body of Christ, where He shines through us. Point 3 ‘Some females usurp authority. They claim to be the spiritual head over their husbands. They turn everything upside down. This has actually happened.’ People who are suppressed and controlled will find ways to empower themselves. Those who are oppressed will learn, over time, to trade in power, and will play the game to seek the advantage. The negative side of their giftings is what they’ll use for this end, and you’ll find yourself locked in a subversive battle. A win/loose battle, that reflects nothing of Jesus but is all about survival at the expense of the other. Point 4 ‘The husband may give in to such a usurping wife. He may even take the lead to rebel….a certain man….appointed three sisters to be leading sisters, including his wife. They and the women who followed them caused some of the most painful and traumatic suffering that we have ever experienced. Eventually, Brother Lee said, “this is a cancer”. They rejected Brother Lee’s fellowship, but the Lord cut that cancer out of the body. Only because these women were ‘leading’, ‘pain, trauma and suffering’ happened, and they became a ‘cancer’? (who experienced this pain and trauma? It’s not included on this forum as part of the grievances of those who have left that I have noticed). Only women who accept their place in this system will not find this a demeaning attitude. Queen Elizabeth the first was arguably the best monarch England has had, and certainly had the wisdom and insight needed at that time, unlike her father. Deborah lead Israel. We can’t ignore these testimonies against the claims of the LC. The rest of the Article: There is so much funny stuff in the first section of this document that the attempt at mopping it up just doesn’t work. RK has declared his wife to be ‘nothing’, not ‘her gifting and calling lie elsewhere in the ministry’. You can’t really fudge that. I don’t know that sharing in her husband’s ministry will damage her, but such words definitely would. How can you be nothing when you are fearfully and wonderfully made? When Jesus valued you enough to die for you? Next. Miriam and Aron. They criticized Moses due to the familiarity of being his siblings, not because Miriam was a woman. The fact of her being female seems neither directly or indirectly relevant to the story at all. If it is, then someone please explain that to me. She received punishment and Aron didn’t, the bible doesn’t explain why, so it’s up to us to either guess, speculate, or ask for revelation. Maybe God did it that way because He just doesn’t like women!!!! (I don’t agree with that idea, by the way, but I suspect some in the LC do!). The whole article is all about control, and whose got it and who’s not allowed any!! I suggest a read of the book 'Why not Women' by Loren Cunningham and David Hamilton. It gives history and context to male/female attitudes in the Christian church and in Israel before the time of Christ, for those who haven't researched it before it covers the subject well. That's my response to this article!