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InOmnibusCaritas · 03-24-2015, 03:00 PM

Hi, boughtbyJesus,

Since you didn't tell us which church you are attending now, I'm going to hazard a guess based on some clues you provided. I may be completely off-base but it seems that you are now attending an evangelical church that is more or less Calvinistic ("the marvelous message of the gospel of Jesus Christ" is probably not at the tip of the mainline tongue). I'm also guessing that your pastor likes expository preaching. Beyond that I cannot even speculate. I'm also assuming that your husband did not attend any church regularly before reconnecting with the LC.

An LC person thinks that the LC is superior for a variety of reasons. Find out what that reason is and it'll be much easier.

1) If he thinks that LC is superior because it does not have a clergy-laity system, tell him about your CG meetings. Attend a CG that requires one to read ahead and has a tradition of sharing where the leader is more a facilitator than a teacher. At home, in his presence, prepare heavily for the sharing session. Highlight and take profuse notes of the CG material. Tell him all about it when it's timely.

2) If he thinks that LC has superior theology (he calls it "truth"), you need to know what is his pet theology. If you are attending the kind of church that I think you are, there are quite a lot of resources you can use. So depending on what theological topic he is on about, I can recommend different books. Do a book swap (you read some Witness Lee, he reads some of your books). At any rate, he's probably following the Holy Word for Morning Revival (HWMR). Be very selective with the books you read. There are many "Christian" books out there that reinforces his stereotypes.

3) If he thinks that non-LC people do not know the Bible or not serious about it or reads from an inferior translation, I'd recommend you to buy the ESV Study Bible. There are various editions of the ESV Study Bible, find the one that more or less matches his Recovery Version in terms of size. Get the hard cover edition. All LC people are impressed with people who handles the word of God well. In fact, they'll actually be surprised that anyone outside of LC can do so.

4) Do not talk to him as if LC is a cult from which he must be rescued. Do not even think that way. It is most certainly not a cult and LC members are typically genuine born-again Christians who loves Jesus and are loved by God. However, they are an ultra-exclusive group and many don't even know what that means. Just simply and genuinely clueless.

5) If you hear him start talking about "ground of oneness" and how divided Christianity is, don't start a church war. At least, not yet. Wait for him to use the word "denominations". The "local ground of oneness" and "denominations" speech is a package deal but wait until he uses both terminologies. Acknowledge the various differences among Christian denominations - make sure both of you understand how different they are. Put them into categories. Who are the ones who practice infant baptism, who are the ones who don't. Who speaks in tongues, who doesn't, etc. He'd be happy to discuss this with you. THEN wait for a time when he start saying things like, "Christianity is..." and make sweeping general statements about it, especially stuffs that are not true about the church you are attending. Gently remind him the very definition of "denomination" -- differences. For example, when he says, "What I don't like about Christianity/denominations is the clergy-laity system", remind him that not all denominations have a clergy-laity system.

6) Agree with him that all Christians in a locality is part of the church in that locality. Agree that you are part of the church in San Gabriel. In fact, force him to acknowledge that all regenerated Christians in San Gabriel are in the church in San Gabriel. Use Watchman Nee's book "Assembly Life" or "The Normal Christian Church Life" where he has chapters/sections devoted to the boundary of a local church being the boundary of the city. Having established that "truth", hold him accountable each time he reduces "the church in San Gabriel" or "local church" to just his LC community. This is inevitable and an intractable problem for the LC. This is the result of inheriting an extremely inclusive ideal (all Christians here are part of the church in San Gabriel) and an extremely exclusive practice of assuming that only those who meet at 615 W Santa Anita St. San Gabriel, CA 91776 is the church in San Gabriel.

7) Learn the lingo. You may be using the same words and they actually mean different things. You say "service", he says "meeting". You say "ministry", he says "service". You have no equivalent to his use of the word "ministry" or worse "the ministry". It just means Witness Lee's books that are published by Living Stream Ministry.

8) Love on him. Human beings are social creatures who define themselves by defining others. The sharper one is able to define the "other", the clearer the social boundaries and the more ingrain one's own social identity becomes. Witness Lee did a fantastic job in sharpening the distinctions. Your job is to blur those boundaries with love. Jesus Christ is your best example when he crossed all Jewish social boundaries (Mark 4:35-5:20; Mark 7:31-37). The first time Jesus crossed over (yes, Mark used the term "cross over" on purpose to highlight the crossing of social boundaries) to Decapolis, a Gentile area, he was asked to leave. But he tasked the demonic man he healed to preach the gospel in Decapolis (Mark 5:18-20). The second time Jesus visited Decapolis (Mark 7:31-37), there was a crowd this time and they want Him to heal the deaf man. The miracles of feeding the 5000 (Mark 6:30-44) was done in Jewish land while the miracles of feeding the 4000 (Mark 8:1-9) was in Gentile land. BLUR THE DISTINCTIONS WITH LOVE.

9) Above all, pray. Also, pray together for family and friends. Don't pray about church practices yet but rather pray as a Christian couple. Pray for that couple from the LC he tells you about. Ask him to pray for that kid with rashes in your church.

03-24-2015, 03:00 PM	#4
InOmnibusCaritas Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Posts: 56	Re: A little background Hi, boughtbyJesus, Since you didn't tell us which church you are attending now, I'm going to hazard a guess based on some clues you provided. I may be completely off-base but it seems that you are now attending an evangelical church that is more or less Calvinistic ("the marvelous message of the gospel of Jesus Christ" is probably not at the tip of the mainline tongue). I'm also guessing that your pastor likes expository preaching. Beyond that I cannot even speculate. I'm also assuming that your husband did not attend any church regularly before reconnecting with the LC. An LC person thinks that the LC is superior for a variety of reasons. Find out what that reason is and it'll be much easier. 1) If he thinks that LC is superior because it does not have a clergy-laity system, tell him about your CG meetings. Attend a CG that requires one to read ahead and has a tradition of sharing where the leader is more a facilitator than a teacher. At home, in his presence, prepare heavily for the sharing session. Highlight and take profuse notes of the CG material. Tell him all about it when it's timely. 2) If he thinks that LC has superior theology (he calls it "truth"), you need to know what is his pet theology. If you are attending the kind of church that I think you are, there are quite a lot of resources you can use. So depending on what theological topic he is on about, I can recommend different books. Do a book swap (you read some Witness Lee, he reads some of your books). At any rate, he's probably following the Holy Word for Morning Revival (HWMR). Be very selective with the books you read. There are many "Christian" books out there that reinforces his stereotypes. 3) If he thinks that non-LC people do not know the Bible or not serious about it or reads from an inferior translation, I'd recommend you to buy the ESV Study Bible. There are various editions of the ESV Study Bible, find the one that more or less matches his Recovery Version in terms of size. Get the hard cover edition. All LC people are impressed with people who handles the word of God well. In fact, they'll actually be surprised that anyone outside of LC can do so. 4) Do not talk to him as if LC is a cult from which he must be rescued. Do not even think that way. It is most certainly not a cult and LC members are typically genuine born-again Christians who loves Jesus and are loved by God. However, they are an ultra-exclusive group and many don't even know what that means. Just simply and genuinely clueless. 5) If you hear him start talking about "ground of oneness" and how divided Christianity is, don't start a church war. At least, not yet. Wait for him to use the word "denominations". The "local ground of oneness" and "denominations" speech is a package deal but wait until he uses both terminologies. Acknowledge the various differences among Christian denominations - make sure both of you understand how different they are. Put them into categories. Who are the ones who practice infant baptism, who are the ones who don't. Who speaks in tongues, who doesn't, etc. He'd be happy to discuss this with you. THEN wait for a time when he start saying things like, "Christianity is..." and make sweeping general statements about it, especially stuffs that are not true about the church you are attending. Gently remind him the very definition of "denomination" -- differences. For example, when he says, "What I don't like about Christianity/denominations is the clergy-laity system", remind him that not all denominations have a clergy-laity system. 6) Agree with him that all Christians in a locality is part of the church in that locality. Agree that you are part of the church in San Gabriel. In fact, force him to acknowledge that all regenerated Christians in San Gabriel are in the church in San Gabriel. Use Watchman Nee's book "Assembly Life" or "The Normal Christian Church Life" where he has chapters/sections devoted to the boundary of a local church being the boundary of the city. Having established that "truth", hold him accountable each time he reduces "the church in San Gabriel" or "local church" to just his LC community. This is inevitable and an intractable problem for the LC. This is the result of inheriting an extremely inclusive ideal (all Christians here are part of the church in San Gabriel) and an extremely exclusive practice of assuming that only those who meet at 615 W Santa Anita St. San Gabriel, CA 91776 is the church in San Gabriel. 7) Learn the lingo. You may be using the same words and they actually mean different things. You say "service", he says "meeting". You say "ministry", he says "service". You have no equivalent to his use of the word "ministry" or worse "the ministry". It just means Witness Lee's books that are published by Living Stream Ministry. 8) Love on him. Human beings are social creatures who define themselves by defining others. The sharper one is able to define the "other", the clearer the social boundaries and the more ingrain one's own social identity becomes. Witness Lee did a fantastic job in sharpening the distinctions. Your job is to blur those boundaries with love. Jesus Christ is your best example when he crossed all Jewish social boundaries (Mark 4:35-5:20; Mark 7:31-37). The first time Jesus crossed over (yes, Mark used the term "cross over" on purpose to highlight the crossing of social boundaries) to Decapolis, a Gentile area, he was asked to leave. But he tasked the demonic man he healed to preach the gospel in Decapolis (Mark 5:18-20). The second time Jesus visited Decapolis (Mark 7:31-37), there was a crowd this time and they want Him to heal the deaf man. The miracles of feeding the 5000 (Mark 6:30-44) was done in Jewish land while the miracles of feeding the 4000 (Mark 8:1-9) was in Gentile land. BLUR THE DISTINCTIONS WITH LOVE. 9) Above all, pray. Also, pray together for family and friends. Don't pray about church practices yet but rather pray as a Christian couple. Pray for that couple from the LC he tells you about. Ask him to pray for that kid with rashes in your church.