[kumbaya]

Originally Posted by Ohio

We have had lots of discussion on this Spiritual Abuse Titles sub-forum.

The poster named aron has provided much information about western vs. oriental thought, the former stressing individuality liberties, and the latter stressing the collective group think. Witness Lee modeled much of LSM and its control over the LC's on Chinese culture. His first decade in the US was much more conducive to individual liberty of the Spirit. In Jan. 1974 things began to change for the worse.

For example, what I call the ministry of "early-Lee" stressed walking by the Spirit and building up autonomous local churches. Most of today's older leaders joined the movement during those early days. "Later-Lee," however. stressed the "body-life" and being "one with the ministry." Lee would use every crisis in the Recovery to expedite his takeover of the LC's. Sometimes he would even manufacture a crisis when needed, but convince the members it was all the Lord's doing.

Here is one thread started by aron on Brainwashing

This is right up my alley! Thank you, I will definitely read it. I talked to my family today a little about this whole thing. I know I need to read more first on how to do that but I'm trusting that our relationship is strong enough to just be honest and respectful. I mentioned that I saw practices that I didn't think were healthy and why. I mentioned how I thought there were negative effects of those and said I'd be happy to go into what those practices were if they wanted to know. The thing is, unless you're an expert in thought reform tactics and ALSO have transitioned out of a thought reform group- I don't think you can begin to understand how hard it will be. I've read that most of the time, when you're in a group that uses thought reform tactics, the thing that is most likely to get you out of it is a negative personal experience within the group that causes you to see the unhealthy behaviors....

I'm just going to have to be really careful bc I just got my feelings hurt a "teeny" bit and saw how bad things would be if more hurt feelings happened on either side. I was about to explain a thought I had about LSM and I got laughed at. I realize this is silly but the person who did it would never normally do that. I realized its just a defense mechanism and I understand. We all have defenses but it made me realize that they weren't going to hear me.

Yesterday I had a realization about this whole issue of being in thought reform for so long...

I saw a closed group on Facebook the other day called "Flat Earthists." It stated it wasn't there to discuss the legitimacy of the earth being flat instead of round, but you had to be a "flatty" (WOW! LOL) to join. I thought it was a joke but then yesterday while driving, I saw a car with a sticker in the windshield that said "the earth is flat." I looked it up and I couldn't believe it- there are a growing number of people who believe this!! I was just shocked and started to laugh to myself, amazed at the idea that people could be such idiots!

Then, I realized- I actually don't KNOW the earth isn't flat. I mean, I haven't traveled from one point of the world, in a circle, to end up in the same place. I BELIEVE that I live in a world where a lie that HUGE could not be propagated to the masses and sold as a fact. I don't believe that kind of manipulation could occur in modern society.

However, I do not know this to be a FACT- I accept and believe the evidence I've seen showing the earth is round.. I trust what society has told me.

Granted, what members in the local church believe is definitely not as widely accepted as the assumption that the earth is in fact, round. And the fact that the earth is round isn't something I think about every day or hang my present and eternal existence on. But, for the sake of trying to explain the complicated and difficult process of coming out of a thought reform environment....What if the earth was ACTUALLY FLAT and we have all been deceived??? It would be an earth shattering (haha!!!) event in our lives!! We would probably want ALL the evidence and EVERYTHING EXPOSED in order to confirm that we had, in fact, been deceived. We would have to figure out how to accept this new truth and move on with our lives. There would probably still be many that wouldn't accept this new information and continue to think the earth was round. The idea that they could have possibly been deceived is unimaginable and they couldn't function in a flat earth, only a round one.

Take a fourth of the shock you'd feel (I admit- I'm stretching it here, ha!!) if you found out the earth was flat and that's how I've been feeling the last few months. It has changed everything for me. Actually, as hard as it is- I can already see that it's helping me become more independent and accountable to myself. I know this is going to be a hard but positive journey (at least I have faith that it will be).

My point is, THE EFFECTS OF THOUGHT REFORM ARE REAL. It is HARD to go on when you were RAISED AS A CHILD to believe in a certain belief system and (bc of thought reform tactics) associate your identity with it.

The idea that my family was KNOWINGLY DECEIVED into believing someone else's "version" of Christianity is hard to accept and move forward from. I think for a lot of kids that grew up in it and have family there- it's like replacing the phrase, "Yes, the earth exists but its flat." with the phrase, "Yes, Jesus and the body of Christ exists, but the Lord's Recovery has it all wrong (btw, it may be a cult)."

"P.S. Have fun accepting your new reality that most of your family may consider you poisonous one day for believing all this!!"

I'll tell you- It's not a great feeling to have.

I'm just realizing what a difficult process it was for me to see that all the damaging things and hurtful things were the "fruit" of unhealthy and manipulative practices. I'm also just realizing what a journey this will still be of self-discovery and personal growth (hopefully). I am admittedly guarded with discussing spiritual things with people who might want to advise me but I feel at peace believing that I'm healing right now and that Jesus and I are just taking this thing slow, day by day. He knows my heart, He knows I want truth and Him. I know I'm damaged emotionally (mainly due to my failed marriage) and that has made me pretty guarded with most people. Combining that with learning about what unhealthy church practices were, reading about things in the LC in the past, and recognizing what I believe are thought reform tactics in the LC- it's just all been very overwhelming and emotionally painful.

I think it's important to remember, in regards to talking with my family/friends, that I came to this realization after I separated myself from it and actively searched for the truth because I was brave enough to want to know. I DIDN'T and still don't want to believe it but I want truth and as of now, this is what I'm seeing to be real.

I'm still going to read more on how to talk to family and I am so incredibly grateful for the support here and the links to help advise/inform. They have either been in the LC all their lives or the majority of it and aren't able to see the red flags. Ironically, a huge red flag to me that LSM is exploiting them is just their bookshelves! In one of my family members home, there are 3 BIG built-in bookshelves with all the Life Studies on display. One of the 3 is FULL of LSM material in the bottom cabinets and there's another stand alone bookshelf with 4 rows (at least) of more LSM material. I'm all about reading but I'm pretty sure I haven't seen any books NOT published by LSM on those shelves. Possibly a few, but I would be VERY surprised if there were even 10 (and I'm feeling generous in saying that). Granted, my family has been in the church for decades now but this is almost the norm if you've been in that long. Of course, this doesn't include tithes (which I agree to giving to churches that keep their finances open to members and still not clear on what's used for their locality, what's LSM, and what's used for their legal battles but that's another post!) and it doesn't include what they've spent on training expenses (they usually go twice a year, at least once). Now, I'm not saying it's wrong to have just one Christian author's writings on bookshelves on display, but I am DEFINITELY saying I believe it's unbalanced no matter what you believe about the material. I'm not kidding, the Life Studies and books probably total over 500, give or take a hundred. I can't even begin to think about what that collection may have cost! I think that by itself is (most likely) a sign that you are elevating these writings to a level they shouldn't be at. I don't have the heart to say this to my family but given the season of Christmas and agreed upon feeling among saints in the LC that Christmas trees are "idols" - I can't help but thinking it's the "pot calling the kettle black." Of course, I have no accusations towards them about it. Anyone who is subject to manipulation and exploitation in a church will show the effects of it. It's very normal for the saints to display LSM material in their homes and group think tactics are used on them- so, what else would you expect??

I know we have to take what we hear with a grain of salt but where there's smoke, there's fire. Ironically, my dad used to always say that! I've seen the same thing repeated enough to suspect some truth to events that are alleged. I have also listened to recordings and personally seen the practices while in the church that I believe to be wrong. I've read SO much on what healthy spiritual guidance/teachings should look like (not even mentioning WL or the LC) bc I had to prove to myself that I believed I was doing the right thing by taking a stand against the manipulative practices of thought reform used and exploitation of Christians by the LSM. All you have to do is educate yourself on these things. It sounds so much easier when you say it like that!!! If only....

Thank you guys for the support and Ohio, I'm going to check those links out. Thanks so much!