[aron]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I thought about the seven spirits. Please write more on this topic.

Unfortunately I'm unqualified, and will limit myself to two remarks. The first thing to keep in mind is that the Revelation of John was written 200+ years before the Nicene Creed, and John wasn't beholden to creedal formulas as you and I are. If he wanted to put seven spirits before the throne, he did. Not sure if he'd read Paul's epistle to the Ephesians. Probably, since he addressed the Ephesian church as full of knowledge, but short of love. Paul of course had been in Ephesus for 3 years (Acts 20:31).

But the word "one" in Biblical context doesn't necessitate a numerical understanding, but rather perhaps a functional perspective. Jesus said, "You shall be one, even as I am one with the Father", and this presented a common theme in the Bible, that of agency. A rich person has agents working for them, who are one with his or her wishes, desires, plans. They go forth, and work, and report back to the Boss. As such, they are one. There are many, but they are all one. "I come to do Thy will; behold in the scroll of the book it is written concerning Me" - obedience indicates oneness. Crucial to my understanding was the Centurion's explanation to Jesus, of servants going forth and functioning at his bidding, at which Jesus marveled. Likewise, we see many gospel parables of stewardship, obedience, and faithfulness. It all points to being one with God. (It doesn't mean "becoming God" - the Centurion, with Caesar above him, and servants under him, all remained such. But they were one, with commonality of purpose, intent, function, expression).

So there are seven spirits burning before the throne in Revelation 1:4, 3:1, 4:5, 5:6, yet one spirit in Ephesians 4:4, and not perforce a contradiction. There are many but they're one. For example, there are four living creatures, there are twenty-four elders, there are two witnesses, there are uncountable millions gathered around the throne praising and giving thanks and glory and honor. But they're all one.

My second point is this: Moses was told to build everything according to the pattern shown him on the holy mountain. So Moses built a lampstand with seven lamps. What, then, did Moses see - a lampstand? Or seven flames?

Interestingly, when they came down from the mountain, it said that "fire came out from before the throne" and consumed Aaron's sons for their disobedience (Lev 10:2). So there was fire burning before God's throne in heaven, and from the containment and support structure that Moses created on earth, there were actually seven of them - this is what I see John saying, in Revelation 1:4. "As in heaven, so on earth" (Matt 6:10) - as was seen in the heavenly temple, so was created the earthly copy.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I suspect the FTT kid is banned from this site and not allowed to talk to 'insiders' anything 'negative'. He/she reckoned he/she knew it all (having been taught WL all-incisive high peak blah blah) and had confidently declared AMA (ask me anything)...

We've all been there. I was confident, once. I knew all the answers. But life has a way of showing us that God alone has all the answers.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Now this kid is learning. Pray for him/her that The Lord reveals Himself and His own word, that this one in The Lord's hand is supported by The Lord Himself. Sad spies and sad leaders in the LSM controlled system. Is it worth it? Butcher the young that you shepherded. Lord Jesus Christ is coming soon.

I'm critical of LSM and FTT thinking, but they're no worse than I or you or anyone; they're just human beings trying to do their best. Unfortunately they're completely blind to the effect of human culture on their understanding, their social arrangements and their behaviors. They think that everything they hold forth to the world is straight from the throne of heaven, unaltered, but it's been distorted by the lens of human culture, and woven in by the passage of human history. And the harder and more stubbornly one holds on, the harder becomes the experience causing one to let go. Let's pray for grace for each other, that we may follow the pattern of our Lord, and empty ourselves.

I'll leave it at this: we probably can't reconstruct exactly what John was thinking, on Patmos, as he composed his message to the mainland. He seems to have been deliberately obscure. In this, he was following the pattern set by his Lord, who spoke parables to the crowds, but secretly revealed to His closest followers. I think that John was essentially writing in open code, and one must dig into John's sources, especially Daniel, Ezekiel, and Isaiah. His allusions are constant, but they're often veiled or mashed together. And I suspect deliberately so: one must almost become a "disciple" of John to make any headway (which may have been his intent).

See e.g

Originally Posted by Psalm 78

A Maskil of Asaph. Listen, O my people, to my instruction; Incline your ears to the words of my mouth. I will open my mouth in a parable; I will utter dark sayings of old, Which we have heard and known, And our fathers have told us.….

Originally Posted by Matt 13

All these things Jesus spoke to the crowds in parables, and He did not speak to them without a parable. This was to fulfill what was spoken through the prophet: "I WILL OPEN MY MOUTH IN PARABLES; I WILL UTTER THINGS HIDDEN SINCE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD.".….

Additionally note that in public Jesus would speak elliptical sayings, riddles, then close with, "He who has an ear to hear, let him hear..." which is exactly what John wrote to each of the seven churches in Revelations 2 and 3. In other words, I'm not going to reveal my parable, but if you have diligence, and patience, and humility, perhaps God will open your ears and you'll hear the Spirit's speaking. You already have the anointing, and have no need that man teach you anything (1 John 2:20, 27). Be patient and God will speak what He wishes. But you first have to let go of YOUR wishes, your thoughts and intentions. And your culture. It's a hindrance to the Spirit's utterance. So buy some eye-salve.

As usual, I've probably written far too much and muddied things up.