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Originally Posted by aron
I had that thought some years after leaving the LCs. If Jesus said that you should love your neighbour as yourself, shouldn't you love yourself? How can you love your neighbour if you don't know what constitutes "yourself"? Likewise the soul, how can you lay it down if you don't know what it is? I don't mean semantically, but experientially.
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Aron, I understand what you're saying but I think we have to be a bit cautious here.
In Mark 12:31 when he says "love others as youself" Jesus assumes those he's addressing already know God's love for them. And as with any relational love, whether it be with God or man, comes by hearing, seeing, and understanding (experiential or revelatory).
None are separate from each other so we have to be careful also that we don't discard any of them as in saying feelings, or emotions, or subjective experiences in themselves are inherently bad and not a part of our relationship with God. The only thing is we shouldn't be chasing after these things or rely on them as validation because without a full understanding we'll actually chase our own constructs rather then what's real. And it's human nature to only want the ecstacy (good) rather than the hurt and suffering (bad) that comes along with God's love. And you know who will offer you only the convient things of life....(Mark 8:33)
With that in mind, Jesus is saying we should love other's as God has loved us. He doesn't say "love others as
you love yourself". There's a big difference just by those two words and it's the difference between God's love and narcissism. We definitely don't want to love ourselves by ourselves as any type of means to an end but if God loves us and we in turn love Him, understanding His perspective on how He views us instills a deep sense of value and worth that can then be imparted to others. And so, we should love others as if we were standing opposite of ourselves and viewing our own person through God's eyes.
I probably don't need to say all of that, but I have seen young ones that came out of very legalistic and controlling religious environments that go from one extreme to the other extreme of new age self-love because they don't know where else to render from the love they're so desperately seeking. That in turn can lead down some very dark paths into false spirituality. Or they give up on love entirely and fall into pure rationalism and atheism.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aron
I don't think Penn-Lewis or Guyon or Fenelon or others as 'wrong' per se, not having read enough to judge. But there is certainly danger in opening oneself to such spirits. The counterfeits are allowed entry when we are in ecstasy.
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You just said, "you don't think Penn-Lewis or Guyon or Fenelon or others as wrong". Isn't that a judgement?
Unfortunately, from all that I've read and seen, Nee too thought he shouldn't judge in that he had the more liberal belief that everyone had a portion of "light" to be gained from and he carried this belief wherever he meet with the many people that shaped his worldview. Can people offer others light from God? Yes of course but not all people in all circumstances.
He too was judging but not judging at the same time. And unfortunately by this type of discernment believing all people and circumstances had potential to further him on his spiritual journey led him to be tossed like a wave in the sea inadvertently creating a mishmash of gnosticism and eastern mysticim with a veener of Christianity...I'm sorry if that last part sounds harsh but I truly do believe that. And to be clear, I do not have a vendetta against Watchman Nee or anyone else, but I do see him in some of the people I have gotten to know within the LC's. I'd hate for them to make the same mistakes, like Nee, I once made myself.