Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness
I'm not allowed to answer this, on the evangelical side. I will offer the two gospel witnesses :
Mat_27:46* And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
Mar_15:34* And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
And John 8:29 is weak because of chronology.
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The issue with John 8:29 is that it associates the Father not leaving Christ with Christ's obedience.
John 8:29 The one who sent me is with me; he has not left me alone, for I always do what pleases him."
If God did leave Christ then John 8:29 is a lie.
It amounts to saying:
"God did not leave Christ alone because He always did what pleases the Father..."
..The cross was the most pleasing act to the Father therefore the Father left him. "
Both cannot be true at the same time unless we consider the hypostatic union. God left Christ and also remained with him.
The point of this post is not to deny that the Father forsook Christ, but to address a viewpoint that the Father left Christ to such an extent that it left just an empty shell of a man on the cross because he was too dirty for the Father to look upon - i.e. the Father threw Him away like trash, just as the people did (thinking he was a guilty sinner who deserved His punishment).
Instead I believe the bible teaches the Father continued to be with Christ during his time in the grave and God also looked upon Him with caring love throughout the whole ordeal.
The prevailing view that God forsook Christ completely, considers Jesus as a guilty sinner when in fact He was an innocent sacrifice. Worse - it portrays the Heavenly Father as one who would abandon His own dear son in his greatest hour of need. I think that a view that says God cannot look at sin or God abandoned His Son on the cross (in a complete way) would cause a person to doubt and think "God forsook his own dear Son on the cross, maybe he'll forsake me too"?
The "God cannot look on sin" people must view Christ as one who ate and drank with sinners but the Father cannot stand to look upon sin and would smite the guilty sinners in a second. I don't think this is correct as it forgets that Jesus is a perfect reflection of the Father (I will refrain from saying Jesus is the Father, don't want to go there again). It also treats Jesus as a guilty sinner as many people thought He was when in fact He was an innocent sacrifice.
The prevailing view in Christianity of Jesus being forsaken by the Father is equivalent to those who mocked Jesus and thought he deserved to be there as a guilty sinner. It is equivalent to portraying the Father as one of the jeerers saying "look at this dirty sinner, He deserves it, and what's more I'm going to forsake Him".
But the Psalms reveal some things about why Jesus said what He said. Jesus was quoting Psalm 22:2 which is a rhetorical question, and anyone who heard Jesus's words at that time would have known he was quoting the Psalm.
Then we come to verse 24 in the Psalm which explains that God never left Him completely:
Ps 22:24
For he has not despised or scorned the suffering of the afflicted one; he has not hidden his face from him but has listened to his cry for help.
Most only see one side of the story - they see the part about "why have you left me God"? and think God actually left Christ, or that Christ was somehow uncertain or bewildered about what was happening. Worse, they think that Christ was too filthy and dirty to be looked upon by God, as if God "cannot look on sin".
But the cross is not a story of "why have you left me God?" . It is "why does it seem like you have left me?" and God replies "I have never left you".
God proved that He did not forsake Christ by raising Him from the dead 3 days later. Also, God was with Jesus in hell:
Psalm 139:8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.
I believe from the cross to the grave, God the Father was with Christ. I think it is wrong how some believe that Jesus was left all alone by Himself from the cross to the resurrection. I think only God the Spirit left Him - I think Jesus could not have died if the Spirit had not left Him - the power of the Spirit could have sustained Christ on the cross for as long as He wanted.
So I think it is most likely Jesus asked these rhetorical questions for our sake, not for His sake. Jesus never doubted God and what was happening to Him.
Jesus knew before He went to the cross that He would rise again after 3 days. So Jesus knew God would never actually forsake Him. Jesus knew God's plan all
along. Jesus was God in the flesh, who knows and see all things, past, present, future, He would have known that the Father's forsaking was only in one aspect, and not a complete forsaking.