Quote:
Originally Posted by Igzy
My point again is it's the real things alongside the bad things that is so confusing about processing and coming to grips with the experience of those days.
I know for a fact that I experienced the Lord's presence in powerful ways back then. I wasn't dreaming or brainwashed. The brainwashing was not the experiences, by and large. The brainwashing came by what we were told the experiences meant: I.e., we were in God's up-to-date move, His best, Lee's ministry was the top ministry, yada. All that was the brainwashing. What I experienced when I touched the Lord was not brainwashing.
You are going to have to work much harder than you have to convince me that all the spiritual experiences I had were delusion. I don't buy that for a minute. Because if I did it would mean my whole comprehension of reality is so far off I might as well check it in, walk around in foam slippers, stay away from sharp objects and wait until the next life to understand anything at all.
Sneak preview of my theory: Here's what I think. The Bible says "draw near to God and he will draw near to you" (James 4:8). We were goofy and mixed-up in a lot of ways in the LCM. But one thing we did do seriously was try to draw near to God. I think we possibly did that with more intensity than any group ever. And so God honored it. We drew near, so he did. It wasn't a confirmation of our theology or meeting habits or being the best or anything like that. It was simply God doing what he promised. We had some amazing experiences as a group and individuals because of it. Unfortunately, some used those to lead us to false conclusions.
It's hard to have this experience now on Sunday morning because most church-goers don't know to try to draw near to God. They just show up and hope he shows up. But I do experience it on retreats and other gatherings when the attendees are of a more serious cloth. In the LCM we experienced it all the time, back then anyway.
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My experience was always a mix of the good and the bad, and even as a kid I saw some of the bad in the LC. Over time, the bad started progressively more apparent. As I reached adulthood, I had opportunities to take my own initiative with participating in LC activities. Some of this resulted in positive experiences along the way. I can disregard those experiences, but neither do I expect they could ever be repeated again in the LC.
When I was younger and took the initiative to attend conferences and trainings, I don't see that as a bad thing, I just didn't know any better. I wouldn't do it now. The way I try to look at it is that there are much worse things I could have been doing.
Where I think the line has to be drawn is to realize those experiences were something of the past. Whatever the benefit was, I think it's like
Igzy said, I tried to "draw near to God". Now that I know better, attempting to stay immersed in the LC environment is not something that God will honor. I also realize I still have a lot of "unlearning" that needs to take place.