Quote:
Originally Posted by Drake
Igzy "Most Christians these days are not sectarian. They don't care about aligning themselves with some school of thought. They just want to be able to meet with people who care about Jesus. That's a fact. "
Hi Igzy,
Denominations are a school of thought and you don't speak for most christians. The fact is, you couldn't possibly know that most Christians are not sectarian given they are divided into thousands of sects and apparently have not discarded them.
Yet, I am not obsessed about that.
If, for instance, a person holds conviction of belief about baptism and even refuses to fellowship with others because of it then there is really no issue from my side. The Lord does not force people in the age of grace. When He returns and establishes righteousness there will be no denominations.
Before the Lord we are responsible for what He has shown us. We share that with others, we try to persuade, and with unbelievers we may plead. In the end, all will be settled according to the One who judges righteously.
Drake
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You are obligated to preach your vision, as are we all. But you are also obligated, in doing so, to honestly address all rational and reasonable questions about your vision--and I don't think you do that. I think when you come up against an argument you can't handle you just brush it aside. In short I don't think you are being completely honest. This is pretty typical of what I see from LCMers.
(By the way, this probably why you guys can't grow your numbers much, because only a fringe of people are going to turn their lives over to a belief system which (1) requires so much of them and (2) can't stand up to scrutiny.)
How do we arrive at the truth? I believe the truth must be able to hold up to some intellectual scrutiny. But as far as I can tell you are avoiding discussions you can't answer, or else mischaracterizing them to brush them aside.
Take your above comment for example. Yes a denomination is a school of thought, but most denominations as far as I can tell are generalizing to the unity of the faith. People might be attracted to some doctrines, but most people I talk to go to churches where they feel they get the Lord's blessing and presence. The school of thought is secondary.
So your response was either disingenuous or befuddled because you brushed aside my actual point with an irrelevancy.
Also you are the one who implied that people in denominations have a "sectarian spirit," But then when I said they generally don't, you said I could not know that. But how could you know? Because the same limitation would apply to you. How can you know there is a "sectarian spirit" if I can't know there isn't?
(Even so, I'm pretty sure my knowledge of actual state of Christianity is more accurate than yours, because everything I've experienced and seen the LCM view is quite biased and ignorant. )
So yes, you need to defend your vision. But you also need to be honest enough with yourself to see the holes in you vision. And for my money I don't see you doing that. I see weak arguments based on fuzzy premises. I see contradictions. I even see hypocrisies. For one I see the LCM as much or more sectarian that most. Just because you stand on the "ground" and claim to be for "oneness" doesn't put you in the clear. The Pharisees stood on Moses and the Law, but we know what Jesus thought of them. You might be okay according to the letter of your law, but certainly not according the spirit. The Lord of the Sabbath can see through that kind of stuff.
I'm seeking truth. But I'm not buying your version unless you can do better. You might begin by being more honest about the holes in your argument and the questionable history of your movement.