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Old 03-16-2019, 11:43 AM   #5510
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Default Re: Politics and the Church

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
I guess I need to do a post mortem, why could I not see it, what was blinding my eyes?

I like your analogy to Pearl Harbor, that is very personal for me. My dad was 12 at the time and spent the day rowing sailors (mostly dead ones) from the Arizona. His house was less than 100 feet from where it was anchored (his old house is now a historical site). Of course he is not the heroic figure Trump is with his phony 4F, nor would I liken my grandfather to Trump either, both my father and grandfather were in the military and recognized a war hero even if he was captured or killed.

So why would we as a family become so naive, able to fall for this Fake news coup? Pretty insulting when you think about it, especially since my Dad got forced out because he refused to let the CIA set up shop in UPI. Fake news has been a very critical force to our family since 1977. Later he disagreed with the NYT handling of the reporting on JFK assassination, and again left. Fake news has been a very big deal in our family and yet here I am, so naive?

I get it, we have had Fake news since 1977 yet it takes CNN saying mean things about Trump for others to see it. So I am happy about that. It has been 42 years, but at least you can now see what I see and know that it matters.

Likewise the coup d'etat. That took place in 1963, so I am glad you finally figured that out. No one cared about the Box 13 scandal when I brought it up, but how do you think the CIA controls Johnson? Do what we say or we'll expose you are a fraud. That is one reason why I welcome the Mueller investigation, because no one is going to be able to bring down the whole "fruitless works of darkness" if they are a fraud.

But that is not the only reason. In the 60s my uncle's house was bombed by the KKK (Robert Kochtitzky). This was because he was standing with the black churches in Jackson, Ms. So our family has been in the center of the civil rights movement for virtually my whole life. I have seen many people approach this issue, most of them with the ministry of condemnation which does not yield righteousness, which is why 50 years later we still see bombings and shootings in churches, mosques, etc. My uncle understood the ministry of righteousness which includes reconciliation. If I hadn't been given a TKO I could tell you the difference, guess you'll have to google it for yourself. But one thing I do know from my experience, the ministry of condemnation is full of those who set themselves up as the judge and jury, deciding who is knocked out and who isn't.

We saw the Black Panthers, they went down a failed path of an eye for an eye, of being conquered by the evil. But who knows 50 years later you would think people would finally figure out this is not a path that leads to righteousness. But I also saw Martin Luther King Jr. and his "coarse jesting" and infidelity was detrimental to the movement. The NT says "be perfect" and he wasn't. Trump isn't either. So yes, I point this out because I know it will undermine anything else he wishes to do. For example Bill Belichik is a family friend, he went to the same university as my cousins and they would have him over to their house. Still I will point out that spygate and deflategate were both unrighteous and will damage his legacy, giving his haters ammunition.

But going back to your Pearl Harbor analogy, one outcome of that attack was the internment camps. No doubt people thought that was the patriotic thing to do. My dad didn't. Instead they figured out who the spy was. He was a butcher. All the admirals would call ahead when they were gonna be in port to order steaks. As a result the butcher (who was Japanese) knew when every ship was going to be in port. Rather than throw every Japanese in jail, find out the traitor and deal with him. Likewise with Trump, instead of falsely accusing him of being a traitor, lets be more precise in our dealing with sin. So since we both agree that the internment camps were unrighteous and foolish, and that they were similar to the false accusations made against Trump why did I support the Mueller investigation? Well, Warren was governor of California and supported the internment camps. That error no doubt influenced his being chosen for the Supreme Court (figured he'd be tough on the commies) yet that error no doubt shaped his opinion and his court ruled on transformative civil rights decisions.

Is it hypocritical that I am not concerned about the most powerful man, a billionaire, a man who has sued thousands of people and stiffed countless number of workers, that I don't empathize with him being unjustly examined? Let me tell you what I am concerned about. My brother was one of the lawyers who recently took the Habeus Corpus case to the Supreme Court. This was where the CIA was locking up "bad guys" in Guantanamo without telling us their names or their crimes. Why? Because our "allies", countries run by despots and tyrants, were cleaning house of political opponents and sending them to Guantanamo. They couldn't tell their names or charges because it would be an outrage. You still don't know them because they were discreetly released and sent abroad as a result of that trial. So when the CIA helps some despot take a peon, toss them in the dungeon and throw away the key without so much as telling us why, then yes, I see that as unrighteous. I do empathize. Sorry if I don't have empathy for some billionaire 4F who insults POWs and families of those KIA, who stiffs common workers, sues everyone he can think of, and is surrounded by thugs and scam artists.
I hope you feel better now.

And how many wrongs does it take to make it all right?

So . . . since all politicians are crooks and liars, even draft dodgers like Clinton and Trump, we need endless Special Prosecutors to undermine our duly elected Presidents. So there's nothing wrong with a deep state coup d'etat because Trump was a draft dodger? Now I get it!

There's just way too many generalizations here to make a decent case. Like Trump insults POW's and GoldStar families. No, he pushed back on one of each. Obviously if Trump hated the military like the Dems do, they would not support Trump. Obviously if McCain was not integral to the Russian Hoax, Trump would not have punched back at him either. Obviously if that one Muslim GoldStar dad had not spoken against Trump at the DNC, he would have been off limits.

Your post is so indicative of identity politics. Talk about drugs coming across the border, and Trump must be an evil racist and xenophobe. Talk about Trump's 4F deferment, and he is disqualified from the office. But how many other politicians had deferments? Hush! Don't talk about that! And Trump "stiffs" workers, but let's not talk about other Politicians who never ran a business in their life, or talk about all the workers who had jobs because of Trump. Must we then elect ones like AOC who has no record at all except bartending?

ZNP, too many tangents to reply to here. And I have no interest in discussing your family, lest I run the risk of insulting any of them. I'm sure they are all wonderful people. Let's not make this personal.

Remember for me it's all about policy. And justice. All the men of the Bible were seriously flawed sinners, but I still love them because of their message. I support Trump because I believe in his policies, not because he kisses babies. This media has put all of Trump's warts under the microscope, but never get the impression that other politicians were better because there was no microscope.
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