[OBW]

There has been some controversy, mainly between myself and Igzy, concerning the place of experience in the Christian faith and practice. While I do not reject experience outright, I am not sure that the thing that we call experience has the importance assigned to it in the written record. Or maybe it is that we have redefined something else and now call it "experience of Christ" and therefore are, like calling grace "simply Christ," hiding what we really mean — even from ourselves.

So I have begun a study, beginning with the word "experience" in the Bible. I am far from done with it. But I will note that outside of the NIV and the NET, the word hardly appears in the NT. In the OT, it is primarily a reference to training. Experienced with the sword. Experienced in carving or in working with gold. It only barely appears in the Psalms, unless you read the NET. And in the Psalms is found the only places where the word comes close to meaning something like what I understand from most of the usage related to "experience of Christ." Yet even there it is mostly a reference to the experience of joy. Or peace.

I scanned through a book by Lee, The Experience of Christ, and noted a lot of declarations that we are to experience all these things (things for which the word "experience" is not supplied in the Bible). For example, we were to experience the emptying our of ourselves. But when I actually consider the passage, it says to have the same mind, not to do the same thing. Might not be much difference. But might be. The mind of someone who rejects something about themselves for a purpose would be one to follow. But declaring that we should do the thing that Jesus did is not exactly what Paul was saying.

But experience is almost always about how it is lived out. We experience hardship, persecution, salvation, the opening of our eyes (to many things), and so on. While we do experience emotions, that is seldom a point of discussion in the Bible. Even where it mentions joy and peace, it is less about emotions and more about a sate of being. Emotions rise and fall rapidly based on outward circumstances and/or our perception of them (whether right or wrong perceptions). But a steady peace is not emotional (or at least not generally so). It is beyond mere emotions.

I will not declare that experiencing Christ or experiences of Christ are "not Biblical." But those are not the terms that are used in the Bible, therefore they refer to something that has a different name or description. I might declare that I know that these "experiences" are not emotional, or just "experiences" of worship of some type rather than experiences in regular life. But many statements concerning these "experiences" are just that. They are something that has no direct link to life or living. There often are emotions wrapped up with them, and when the emotion fades, so does the experience.

"I experienced Christ in my quiet time this morning" may be a true statement. But what does it really mean? What did you experience? We really don't have anything that is "simply Christ" so it is more complex than that. And if it really is an "experience of Christ," how did it affect your living that day and the ones to follow? Did your daily living require that the experience be refueled regularly? Or having had this experience, do you have the realization of something that you can live according to?

This is not a challenge to Igzy. I'm not worried about him. It is a general request to turn a vague term into a lot of substantial things. And possibly put some wrong notions related to it into the garbage. I do not have anything ready to go on it. As I mentioned, the word is not often used. In one version, it is used only once in the NT. And that one could not support a general book title like The Experience of Christ.

Also, this is not a critique of Lee's book, although that is not out of the question. But that is not my goal.

I will not try to "moderate" this thread. But it would be better if we try to add something solid. Not just our personal thoughts. At least be looking at some scripture, or something that someone has written on the subject that has a decent link to scripture.

I will admit that I have provided some initial thoughts. But they are far from solid. Let's look at the word experience first. Define it. Find it in scripture. Find places where it is implied in the nature of the passage without direct use. And places where we have assumed it but it really doesn't fit. Then look at what should be the "experience" of the normal Christian life (not the book).

And maybe this just sits quietly and is ignored. That is OK.