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John · 07-29-2021, 07:36 AM

A few days ago, the Lord reminded me of an email I received from UntoHim over four months ago, which included this:

I was reviewing a LCD thread recently revived by Nell, and upon scanning back to the opening post I found that it was made by "John" way back in 2012….

I was wondering and hoping that I could talk you into giving us your thoughts about the subject "Good vs. Lee's Trees" all these years later.

I replied that I didn’t have the time. The reason, which I didn’t explain to him, was that my wife (“Thankful Jane”) and I were authoring a book together: Return To Follow the Rightful King, and it was requiring our time and focus. When, a few weeks after publishing it, I was reminded of UntoHim’s email (in a surprising way that got my attention), I decided I should post a response.

Good

My post was mostly about how Lee turned us away from biblical good and gave us a false choice between two trees. We then had to choose “life,” of course, which enabled him and the others to narrowly focus us on “life,” which came to have a new definition in practice. Good became effectively “bad.” Regarding this topic, to distill my journey to this point into a sentence, I went from looking for good, to pursuing “life,” to wondering why the Bible had so much good to say about good if it was really bad (that is, not “life”), to choosing the good part.

We Americans are told that we have a right to “the pursuit of Happiness.” Is that what we Christians are supposed to be pursuing? I have recently thought about the title of a Christian classic, The Christian’s Secret of a Happy Life, and wondered where in the Bible we Christians are promised a happy life pre-eternity (as Americans would probably define “happy”). I don’t recall it, although I am just writing from memory here (maybe there is a passage). I do recall that those who leave all to follow the Lord are promised persecution. Think about someone like Paul: Did he have what many Christians in the United States would consider a happy life? I recall one passage in which he wrote about the beatings and stoning he endured, the times he was hungry and thirsty, as well as his time in the deep. Thinking about myself, I have spent my own time in “the deep,” that is, the deep of the Christian religion (not saying that my difficult times compare with Paul’s, of course).

When I came back to the main page of this forum in route to my post about good versus Lee’s trees, I saw a thread entitled, “Trying to find a good church in AUSTIN TX.” It caught my eye because Austin is in our neck of the woods. The thread title reminded me of a really big problem I have had until fairly recently (until the last two years or so). I always found myself, to one degree or another, in pursuit of a “good church.” In addition to all the indoctrination about church that I got from Witness Lee, I still remember the gist of part of what I was told when I was first born again: “Now that you’re a Christian, find a good church to attend.” So, exactly what constitutes a good church, and how would a newborn Christian possibly be equipped to go about finding one? (I mean no disparagement to anyone looking for a good church.) Well, Jane and I (new-Christian John) thought we had found a great church, only to see it morph into the church that is now the subject of this website. (That story is in The Thread of Gold.) Even if it were possible to find a good church (whatever that means), it is now plain to me that this is not to be my main endeavor.

Him

These days, I am not so much focused on things like the meaning of the two trees and other such things from the library of Lee (although I still spend time investigating basic Christian assumptions, including those of Lee). The “good” I am pursuing now is Him. After all these years, I want to be more like Mary, about whom Jesus said,

… but one thing is necessary, for Mary has chosen the good part, which shall not be taken away from her. (Luke 10:42)

What I am trying to learn day by day is to focus on my living King, Jesus. I’m endeavoring to turn away from so many other voices, thoughts, methods—whatever (or whoever)—and learn to follow my rightful King by listening to and hearing His living word, that is, paying particular attention to Him as I read the Bible with Him, pray to Him, talk to Him, type a post with Him, and so forth. You might say, “Well of course, John, everyone knows that.” I might say then, “It’s one thing to know about how to know Him and another to actually get to know Him in your everyday, hour by hour experience.”

In my view nowadays, I see only one King, one leader (Matt. 23:10, NASB). The job of mankind’s leader has been filled by the resurrected Jesus; He is the leader I am told to follow. If Jesus leads me to XYZ Church, I will follow Him there, whether or not I think it is a good church. He is taking me there for His reasons. As I am there, I will do my best to keep in step with the Spirit (Gal. 5:25). If He leads me out of XYZ, I will follow Him out. If He doesn’t lead me to some kind of conventional church, I’ll stay as close to Him as I can. Jesus has shown me that I am to follow Him regardless of what others are doing. (In John 21, Jesus tells Peter to follow Him and not to be concerned at all with what John is doing.) Therefore, I desire to be completely focused on Jesus and on following Him, not on participating in a “good church” and following a “good pastor.” I can trust that Jesus will lead me to other believers as He sees fit in line with His plans for me in His kingdom.

One thing that Witness Lee did to most of us, if we weren’t already programmed that way by Christian culture, was to make the church all-important. However, Jesus is all-important, the most important, not any church. (Again you might say that everyone knows that.) Yes, it should be obvious that Christ is to be in first place (pre-eminent); but in my experience, Christian church culture often doesn’t leave room for Him to be first.

It is clear to me from the Bible that we are called out to be in His kingdom where He reigns supreme. We are to keep Jesus as our first love and to spend time with Him, not focus on programs or methods or various kinds of groups or churches run by men. We are to find out from God what He wants us to be doing. We are to get to know Him—really know Him—and follow Him. We are to trust Him to lead us. Being with Jesus every day makes every day a new day! Sometimes, the excitement in a day reminds me of how I felt when I was first born again!

Them

Jane and I have had quite a journey learning to follow Him together. In recent years, we have had experiences of Him speaking to each of us individually and then, as we fellowship and put together these “speakings” from Him, we find clarity about our pathway forward. As we stay right with Him and with one another, we have seen Him answer specific prayers we have prayed together, often in amazing ways.

I think that what I have written expresses how I feel and where I am right now in my Christian walk. Let me conclude with verses that Jane and I have been working with for awhile:

So God created man in His [own] image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. Then God blessed them, and God said to them, "Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth." (Gen. 1:27–28, NKJV)

Christians are to have dominion on earth over God’s enemy (not each other). Simply put, in our case as a married couple, Jane and I have been learning from Jesus to be a “them.” (This motif is fully explained on our website, “LemonsToGrapes.com.”) To us, this means that we are to be responsible to be right with God and with each other, and then to take care of, in concert with Him, what He has put in our sphere. We also have been learning about the importance of being similarly right with other believers for the same purpose of dominion on the earth over God’s enemy.

I hope that what I have written in brief won’t be misunderstood. My intent with this writing is to be helpful to others on their journey with the Lord. In my experience now, it is liberating and fulfilling to concentrate on keeping the Lord set before me (Psa. 16:8) rather than being distracted with other things. I do so hope that all believers will be encouraged to pursue our common calling of being in fellowship with the Son of God (1 Cor. 1:9), which includes having an experiential, first-hand, intimate knowing of Him (Eph. 4:13).

07-29-2021, 07:36 AM	#106
John Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 62	The Good Part A few days ago, the Lord reminded me of an email I received from UntoHim over four months ago, which included this: I was reviewing a LCD thread recently revived by Nell, and upon scanning back to the opening post I found that it was made by "John" way back in 2012…. I was wondering and hoping that I could talk you into giving us your thoughts about the subject "Good vs. Lee's Trees" all these years later. I replied that I didn’t have the time. The reason, which I didn’t explain to him, was that my wife (“Thankful Jane”) and I were authoring a book together: Return To Follow the Rightful King, and it was requiring our time and focus. When, a few weeks after publishing it, I was reminded of UntoHim’s email (in a surprising way that got my attention), I decided I should post a response. Good My post was mostly about how Lee turned us away from biblical good and gave us a false choice between two trees. We then had to choose “life,” of course, which enabled him and the others to narrowly focus us on “life,” which came to have a new definition in practice. Good became effectively “bad.” Regarding this topic, to distill my journey to this point into a sentence, I went from looking for good, to pursuing “life,” to wondering why the Bible had so much good to say about good if it was really bad (that is, not “life”), to choosing the good part. We Americans are told that we have a right to “the pursuit of Happiness.” Is that what we Christians are supposed to be pursuing? I have recently thought about the title of a Christian classic, The Christian’s Secret of a Happy Life, and wondered where in the Bible we Christians are promised a happy life pre-eternity (as Americans would probably define “happy”). I don’t recall it, although I am just writing from memory here (maybe there is a passage). I do recall that those who leave all to follow the Lord are promised persecution. Think about someone like Paul: Did he have what many Christians in the United States would consider a happy life? I recall one passage in which he wrote about the beatings and stoning he endured, the times he was hungry and thirsty, as well as his time in the deep. Thinking about myself, I have spent my own time in “the deep,” that is, the deep of the Christian religion (not saying that my difficult times compare with Paul’s, of course). When I came back to the main page of this forum in route to my post about good versus Lee’s trees, I saw a thread entitled, “Trying to find a good church in AUSTIN TX.” It caught my eye because Austin is in our neck of the woods. The thread title reminded me of a really big problem I have had until fairly recently (until the last two years or so). I always found myself, to one degree or another, in pursuit of a “good church.” In addition to all the indoctrination about church that I got from Witness Lee, I still remember the gist of part of what I was told when I was first born again: “Now that you’re a Christian, find a good church to attend.” So, exactly what constitutes a good church, and how would a newborn Christian possibly be equipped to go about finding one? (I mean no disparagement to anyone looking for a good church.) Well, Jane and I (new-Christian John) thought we had found a great church, only to see it morph into the church that is now the subject of this website. (That story is in The Thread of Gold.) Even if it were possible to find a good church (whatever that means), it is now plain to me that this is not to be my main endeavor. Him These days, I am not so much focused on things like the meaning of the two trees and other such things from the library of Lee (although I still spend time investigating basic Christian assumptions, including those of Lee). The “good” I am pursuing now is Him. After all these years, I want to be more like Mary, about whom Jesus said, … but one thing is necessary, for Mary has chosen the good part, which shall not be taken away from her. (Luke 10:42) What I am trying to learn day by day is to focus on my living King, Jesus. I’m endeavoring to turn away from so many other voices, thoughts, methods—whatever (or whoever)—and learn to follow my rightful King by listening to and hearing His living word, that is, paying particular attention to Him as I read the Bible with Him, pray to Him, talk to Him, type a post with Him, and so forth. You might say, “Well of course, John, everyone knows that.” I might say then, “It’s one thing to know about how to know Him and another to actually get to know Him in your everyday, hour by hour experience.” In my view nowadays, I see only one King, one leader (Matt. 23:10, NASB). The job of mankind’s leader has been filled by the resurrected Jesus; He is the leader I am told to follow. If Jesus leads me to XYZ Church, I will follow Him there, whether or not I think it is a good church. He is taking me there for His reasons. As I am there, I will do my best to keep in step with the Spirit (Gal. 5:25). If He leads me out of XYZ, I will follow Him out. If He doesn’t lead me to some kind of conventional church, I’ll stay as close to Him as I can. Jesus has shown me that I am to follow Him regardless of what others are doing. (In John 21, Jesus tells Peter to follow Him and not to be concerned at all with what John is doing.) Therefore, I desire to be completely focused on Jesus and on following Him, not on participating in a “good church” and following a “good pastor.” I can trust that Jesus will lead me to other believers as He sees fit in line with His plans for me in His kingdom. One thing that Witness Lee did to most of us, if we weren’t already programmed that way by Christian culture, was to make the church all-important. However, Jesus is all-important, the most important, not any church. (Again you might say that everyone knows that.) Yes, it should be obvious that Christ is to be in first place (pre-eminent); but in my experience, Christian church culture often doesn’t leave room for Him to be first. It is clear to me from the Bible that we are called out to be in His kingdom where He reigns supreme. We are to keep Jesus as our first love and to spend time with Him, not focus on programs or methods or various kinds of groups or churches run by men. We are to find out from God what He wants us to be doing. We are to get to know Him—really know Him—and follow Him. We are to trust Him to lead us. Being with Jesus every day makes every day a new day! Sometimes, the excitement in a day reminds me of how I felt when I was first born again! Them Jane and I have had quite a journey learning to follow Him together. In recent years, we have had experiences of Him speaking to each of us individually and then, as we fellowship and put together these “speakings” from Him, we find clarity about our pathway forward. As we stay right with Him and with one another, we have seen Him answer specific prayers we have prayed together, often in amazing ways. I think that what I have written expresses how I feel and where I am right now in my Christian walk. Let me conclude with verses that Jane and I have been working with for awhile: So God created man in His [own] image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. Then God blessed them, and God said to them, "Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth." (Gen. 1:27–28, NKJV) Christians are to have dominion on earth over God’s enemy (not each other). Simply put, in our case as a married couple, Jane and I have been learning from Jesus to be a “them.” (This motif is fully explained on our website, “LemonsToGrapes.com.”) To us, this means that we are to be responsible to be right with God and with each other, and then to take care of, in concert with Him, what He has put in our sphere. We also have been learning about the importance of being similarly right with other believers for the same purpose of dominion on the earth over God’s enemy. I hope that what I have written in brief won’t be misunderstood. My intent with this writing is to be helpful to others on their journey with the Lord. In my experience now, it is liberating and fulfilling to concentrate on keeping the Lord set before me (Psa. 16:8) rather than being distracted with other things. I do so hope that all believers will be encouraged to pursue our common calling of being in fellowship with the Son of God (1 Cor. 1:9), which includes having an experiential, first-hand, intimate knowing of Him (Eph. 4:13).