[UntoHim]

Originally Posted by Ohio

To a certain degree hating established order is lawlessness. When Jesus rebuked the hypocrisy of Jewish leaders, He did not condemn the entire "system." It was not, "Christ versus Religion," but Jesus versus hypocrisy, lies, sin, unrighteousness, bad tradition, etc. He never condemned some "system" because God authored the system established thru Moses. Yes, He established a new covenant, making the prior one old, yet still carried over much of the structure of elders, leaders, assemblies, shepherds, counselors, judges, teachers, prayers, songs, worship, faith, obedience, etc. in order to care for His people.

Originally Posted by OBW

Now you are repeating the ruse of one of many snake oil salesmen that declare their form of leadership to be different...And since that is part of the structure of the group that any others have joined into, it carries over to them even if they never heard Lee or read any of his books. It was there and is now part of them....But if that fact simply dismisses any effort of man because we can fail, then all is lost and we should close up shop and fall into our graves today since we are all fallen mankind.

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

Or are they just showing up, beholding one person or a group of people, watching them function and do these things . . . while there is little evidence of the Lord being manifested in their own lives?

Point #1: In my experience and observation for 50+ years, (both in and out of the Local Church of Witness Lee) the style of the Sunday morning meeting/service has little to do with "the Lord being manifested in their own lives". I have known and seen Local Churchers who were always popping up from their seats and giving loud, boisterous "testimonies", full of "praise the Lord!"s, "Amen!"s, "Hallelujah!"s and "the Lord showed me so and so through this wonderful message!" and then see little to no evidence of the Lord being manifested in their own lives. I've also known and seen little old Catholic ladies who have evidenced the Lord being manifested in their own lives to a degree that made me feel ashamed.

Point #2: The writings and teachings of the apostles and early church history clearly show us a local church of order, and even a certain structure. There ARE leaders. There ARE teachers. There ARE shepherds. Any "church" that says they don't need leaders or structure are setting the stage for disorder, confusion, and the real possibility of a false teacher influencing the church members. We have seen this dynamic play out again and again throughout church history. The Local Church of Witness Lee just happens to be the one we are all most familiar with.

Point #3: Through the teachings and practices established by Watchman Nee and Witness Lee, many of us received a wrong understanding and appreciation of the biblical and historical purposes of the corporate meeting/service of a local church. This aspect is way too important and involved to just list some methods or styles in an abbreviated way. I will be happy to expand upon this if this thread keeps going.
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