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Originally Posted by countmeworthy
I think the biggest test is living a humbled life when we have attained maturity..
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True that. We are tested after decades of faith, just as surely as we're tested after days.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HERn
The Lord said the first will be last and the last will be first. To me death is like a filter, the only thing that passes through is sanctified character.
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cmw quoting Paul, "You shall be saved, but as through fire." The eternal salvation and the loss of reward are not necessarily the same thing.
My case in point is Moses, who failed, and fell short of the glory. The story of the failed generation, including Moses [!!] is repeated in the NT, both in Corinthians and in Hebrews. They had faith, and left Egypt, but they didn't have enough faith, and fell. But in the gospels, Moses is seen standing on the Mount of Transfiguration with Jesus. To fall in the wilderness is therefore not eternal perdition, but a loss of rest, of reward, the proverbial "good land".
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Yet this is irrelevant, here... to me, there are two questions before us. First: what to do with the person who continues willfully to sin after salvation? "Put the evil man out of your congregation", Paul says. That's unequivocal. Both Ravi Zacharias and Witness Lee, when confronted, turned into bullies. They didn't repent. So they're "out" of the congregation. What their eternal status is, is irrelevant. The LORD is the judge of all, those who are in the congregation, and those who are out. And RZ and WL by their unwillingness to repent, are out.
The second question is, what to do with leaders who are caught in sin, who get ensnared by temptations of power, riches, lust, and after being confronted, they repent? What then? Then, they're still in the assembly, but their leadership role is done. Their books and lectures are irrevocably marred. There was some spirit other than Christ at work. Something of self was insinuating in the ministry, so let their work go.
Yet over and over again, we see leaders who fail, later attempt a "comeback", which makes me wary of their repentance. Their goal is not Christ but to be lifted up over others, to get money from the flock, the soft pillows and easy living. Ted Haggard ended up running a new congregation. Jim Bakker got a new television show, post-prison. Some of the "New Apostolic Reformation" leaders, caught in egregious sin, simply try to hit "reset" and pretend it never happened. And if anyone challenges them, they shrug and say, "We all sin."
Yes, we all sin, but our leaders should be held to a higher standard. Both Jesus and Paul were explicit. I already quoted James 3:1 in post #4. Then, "To whom much is given, much is required", etc etc.. I could go on. Leaders should have greater capacity to understand, to teach, and also to resist temptation's snares.
So even if RZ and WL
had repented, and confessed, and asked our forgiveness, and we'd received them back into fellowship, their leadership position would still be over. Same with WN - I don't judge his faith, but I question his ability to shepherd the flock in any larger sense.