Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio
That is difficult, I will admit. I John 3 on the surface conflicts with I John 1.
The only attempts at reconciliation I can arrive at is what many other teachers have said, that sin here is habitual, it is practiced, it is continual without repentance, and is not a one off. Verse 9 must be read in context with the modifier in verse 6 says, "everyone who abides in Him, does not sin." The translation "practice sin" in verse 8 helps with the understanding.
The alternative understanding only produces either liars or condemnation. First, those who say they do not sin, being born again, rather only make "mistakes," and thus become deceptive, hiding sins, never repenting, etc. Second, those who are honest and admit that they sin are now condemned because they believe they are not begotten of God, nor have been.
Where do we draw the line with sin? Which sins are serious enough to prove I was never born again to begin with? See the point? Can I lie and still be saved? How about stealing? How about losing my temper? What if I hit someone? What about road rage? What if someone dies?
If you read thru the NT, you will see many rotten things describing real Christians. Look at Gal 5.19-21; I Cor 6.9-11; II Tim 3.1-6 for starters.
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This isn't my full response but is just what I have time to squeeze out regarding the verse references at the end of your post.
Galatians 5:19-21 - Barnes Notes on the Bible comments that "shall not inherit the kingdom of God" means "cannot possibly be saved". I am fine acknowledging that this is an interpretation, but that is how I would read it too. I would never read that list and think "believers". Galatians 5 seems to me to be contrasting flesh/law (not saved) with Spirit/spirit (saved). Could say more but too short on time. Verses 22-24 say "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires." I just don't see genuinely belonging to Christ Jesus and raping being able to go together.
1 Cor 6:9-11 is definitely about unbelievers, because just after it Paul says "and such WERE some of you....BUT you were washed, BUT you were sanctified, etc..." The rotten list is describing before salvation, not after.
2 Timothy 3:1-6 is also definitely about unbelievers, because in verse 8 he says "....so also these men (described in vv 1-6) oppose the truth. They are depraved in mind and disqualified from the faith..." That sounds like an unbeliever or false believer to me.
I don't know if it's just the act of rape that's the hangup or what. I went through the same mental thought process as you as I drove home tonight, thinking "where is the line, then, that determines my own salvation, since I still sin?" Something about rape is a no-go for me as far as a genuine believer in Christ able to do it, in the sense that it is 1) aforethought, 2) continued in coercion against a struggling second party, and 3) not often done in a "blind rage". I don't know where we draw the line though, I totally agree and am scratching my head too, but I will try to say more another day when I have more time.
By the way, love him or hate him, I am getting some of my perspective from Ray Comfort of Living Waters. He preaches the gospel in a very specific way, and that is where I am getting the false conversion angle from. He is big on people walking around thinking they are good with God, outwardly serving Him, but not really saved because the real gospel wasn't preached to them...i.e. false converts. Oftentimes the fruit isn't evident in their lives. Anyway, this topic interests me some (sin after salvation) so I'll try to revisit, like I said.