Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio
For Jesus to be equal with God, doesn't mean that He is the Father, but does mean that Jesus is God. Too many verses tell us that. Jesus, as the eternal Logos of God, is also the eternal Son of God. How could He be anything other than God, if He has created all things and is worthy of our worship. He is the image of the invisible God. God the Father's image is His eternal Son of God. If Jesus were not God, then the Father would never share His worship, His throne, His glory with His Son.
Boxjobox somehow would like us to get the impression that Jesus began in the womb of Mary, that He was a unique man, who became Messiah. That view sees only the seen, and not the unseen.
"Before Abraham was, I am."
For Boxjobox to promote the idea that the man Jesus was exalted by God and now at the right hand of His throne (but denying His eternal deity) is to me the same as the RCC exalting the "blessed virgin" Mary. Read their theology. Billions believe that sinless and perfect Mary is their co-Redeemer, has ascended to the heavens, has been crowned with glory and honor, and is now deserving all the prayers and praise of all God's children.
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As eye-rolling as this sounds, I think what's at the core of this issue is literally "what do you mean by 'God'?"
For me, it's nonsensical to say, "Jesus is God but He's not God the Father", if the word "God" both times in that sentence means exactly the same thing. It's totally self-contradictory, and creation itself shows us God is not a contradictory being. It is true that Jesus repeatedly says "there is one God, the Father, etc....." Okay then, so what does it mean when we seemingly contradict Jesus's own words and say Jesus is God?
This, again, is what I was trying to get at with "God-kind", or even family. For example, Elohim, as we know, is a plural construct. Other words that end in "-im" like Nephilim, etc.....refer to a whole race of beings. I have no problem saying Jesus is divine, eternal, of God-kind, of the divine family,or an eternal race, etc. As such, Jesus being the eternal Word of God makes perfect sense. His being the I Am makes sense, because He thus always was/is/will be. His being slain before the foundation of the world, all things coming into being through Him, etc.... makes sense because He's God-kind and thus shares all those eternal attributes of God the Father.
When BJB says "Jesus is not God" and when Ohio and Unto say "Jesus IS God"......I'm serious here.....what does each of you mean by "God"?
When there is "one God, the Father" and we say "Jesus is God but not God the Father".....what do we actually mean by that last sentence? What does "God" mean to you there?