[Trapped]

Originally Posted by Boxjobox

Ohio, contrary to what Untohim want to present as my desires to get rid of verses, I have read the scripture for over 40 years now- all of it, very consistently, and often, very thoughtfully. I seek the truth, and want to know all things about gGod and his Christ. I wonder about, and consider just about everything I read in the scripture. I do not claim to have arrived, nor do I claim any great revelation.

Here is a verse Paul wrote Timothy- I should think we are all familiar with it, and I hope we all can consider it as a helpful verse in this whole discussion

5For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6who gave Himself as a ransom for all—the testimony that was given at just the right time.

As I read Paul and his writings, I do not see him promoting a triune God, not do I see him setting up Jesus as God, rather I see him promoting One God, the Father. I do repeat this quite often in my posts because 1) it seem extremely imperative on Paul’s side that we get this. 2) I’ve been a Christian for over 40 years, and do not hear it talked about- everyone for whatever reasons seem to speak opposite this, which I find very concerning. 3) I feel it is the fundamental governor for all of Paul’s speaking and teaching. And should be the same with the believers.
Reading through Ephesians, which is a letter we all seem to find ultra important in things related to God, Christ, the Church and our walk in Christ, I can see this governor working. Paul speaks quite freely of the God of our Lord Jesus, of the God and Father of our Lord Jesus. Jesus is not just an ordinary man- he is the Christ, he is the plan God had from creation and before, he was the lamb OF God, God raised him from the dead, God exalted him over all creation, and here is another verse by Paul where Luke records what he speaks to the Athenians

30Although God overlooked the ignorance of earlier times, He now commands all people everywhere to repent. 31For He has set a day when He will judge the world with justice by the Man He has appointed. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising Him from the dead.”

I see the man Christ Jesus constantly spoken of by Paul- I see nowhere a God Jesus. Jesus is the son of God. His mother Mary was told this

29Mary was greatly troubled at his words and wondered what kind of greeting this might be. 30So the angel told her, “Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God. 31Behold, you will conceive and give birth to a son, and you are to give Him the name Jesus. 32He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David, 33and He will reign over the house of Jacob forever. His kingdom will never end!”

Paul said this

2the gospel He promised beforehand through His prophets in the Holy Scriptures, 3regarding His Son, who was a descendant of David according to the flesh, 4and who through the Spirit of holiness was declared with power to be the Son of God by His resurrection from the dead: Jesus Christ our Lord..

Ohio, I think you have probably read quite a few of my posts over time, and I think you can say that I’ve quoted quite a bit of the NT in stating my points, and not just snippets of verses.

I wouldn’t want anyone to believe me, I do hope all who read consider strongly and thoughtfully the scripture. We are all on the road walking the same walk of trying to discern what’s what. We all went through the LC, where we were told what’s what. We all rejected WL’s what’s what. If you strongly feel that the scripture is saying Jesus is God, I understand that, I used to think that and practiced accordingly. The more I read and considered the whole NT, I did not find that the case, and my practices- especially in prayer and in relating to others has changed accordingly. The Jesus I know leads me to his God and Father. I think Matthew recorded about 4 or 5 chapters of Jesus doing just that. When I read the gospel of John, I see Jesus doing quite the same.

I hope this brief post will give you a better perspective on my life, belief and practice.

Boxjobox

Just piping in with my own perspective. For me, up until this post of yours BJB, I have been hesitant to say I mostly agree with you because you have seemed to repeatedly say that Jesus is a man only. In this post you say enough extra that I'm on board with you regarding what you say in this post, where you acknowledge that Jesus is more than just a man. That was my hangup in previous posts.

Jesus IS more than just a man, I think we all agree on that.

And I don't think that Philippians 2:6 works to say that "Jesus is God".

Who, existing in the form of God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,

The phrase "did not consider being equal with God" or "did not consider equality with God" doesn't get us there. If I am equal with my spouse, it still doesn't mean I AM my spouse. My spouse is my spouse, and I am me. I can be equal with another person, but we cannot say that means I AM that other person. Same here. Jesus was in the form of God, and can surely claim equality with God (which I will get to in just a sec) but none of those things mean, even grammatically, that He IS God (the Father).

A coin has the form of a presidential face on it, but that form doesn't mean it IS the actual face of the president.

The greek for equality in Philippians 2:6, as has already been said, is "isa". It's the same word used in John 5:18:

For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.

And there we see what "equality with God" is. Jesus is calling God His own Father, thus making Himself equal with God. Equality with God means that God is His Father, not that He IS God. It doesn't mean He IS God the Father. In relation to us mortal humans, Jesus being the Son of God means that we afford Him the same respect, honor, deference, submission, glory, etc as God His (and our) Father. This doesn't mean that Jesus is God the Father. Even the trinity model shows that (that Jesus is not God the Father). We would regard a prince - the son of a king - as royalty, just as the king is royal too, by dint of his being the king's son. It doesn't mean, though, that the prince IS the king. (BJB, incidentally this is why I was speaking of "god-kind" a while back.....the "royalty" example gets across the same thought.)

P.S. are there plenty of other verses people point to about Jesus being God? Sure. I'm just dealing with the one that has been brought up in the last few posts.