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Originally Posted by UntoHim
My goodness, I guess I've really made it big....I'm being tag teamed by a staunch Unitarian and a stone cold atheist! How cool is that!
So you guys really think that those 4th century Christians just fell off their horse-drawn, bumped their heads and came up with the Trinity? Did one of their horses kick em in the noggin and they suddenly believed Jesus was God? You guys should consider being stand up comedians (as soon as the clubs open)
There is a clear record of the earliest Christians teaching and believing that Jesus was God - that he shared in the divine "substance" with the Father. They also clearly taught and believed in the Trinity, although they used different terminology. Polycarp was a first generation "church Father". He clearly believed and taught that Jesus Christ, the Son of God, was God incarnate. He also believed and taught the doctrine of the Trinity. There are many other first generation Christian teachers and scholars who also believed and taught the earliest forms of the doctrine of the Trinity.
The Nicene creed did not decide that Jesus was God, or that there are three divine persons that compose the Godhead, rather it confirmed that these were orthodox doctrines that had been passed down from the original apostles. To say that Jesus "became God", or that the Trinity was invented, at the council of Nicaea is patently false.
I hope to have a little more time over the next few days to converse with you fellows about this.
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My my, Untohim, how quickly we move away from scripture and the direct teachings of Paul. On your main site, you got one quoting CS Lewis as the divine inspiration, another talking about the elephant’s tail; but bringing out that Paul, in no uncertain terms told the Corinthians that there is but one God, the Father ( you know, a nasty, inconvenient scriptural truth), then there is mayhem in the trinitarian ranks. Of course, I should add that in telling the Corinthians that there is one God, the Father, he also, to their shame, pointed out that everyone does not have that knowledge (something to consider on your side of the fence! I’m doing my best to inform)
Maybe, Untohim your next banner should be right there from 1Cor 8. Declare to all that a Paul said there is one God, the Father; then, it would be easier to come to grips with oneness being maintained by adhering to this as Paul, again in no uncertain terms begs the Ephesians to uphold.
You may want to take a historical note that the more the trinitarian stuff took over, the more evil took place in the church- it’s well worth noting, and goes along splendidly with John’s writings to the 7 churches.
Of course there is a build up to the 4th century edicts and the torture it brought, and the “poor, poor Christianity” that followed. You, dear brother are looking backward from the 21st century after almost two millennia of trinitarianism imposed on the church and justifying it not based on the teachings of scripture. You’re stand actually makes the scripture 2nd rate to the orthodoxy. Look at it from the foundational church portrayed in the scriptures, and Galatians will make perfect sense.
And, how Christian it is for you to visit us lowly in the dungeon- true religion in practice!