[Ohio]

Originally Posted by UntoHim

Ohio,

Although I have studied the Bible for about 50 years, I do not feel qualified to consider my personal views and interpretations definitive or authoritative in any way, shape or form. I have always hoped and prayed that God would lead me to those men and women who could teach and council me in the Word, and participate in a movement which followed the way of righteousness and truth. For about 20 years, I felt with all my heart and all my mind that Witness Lee was that man, and the Local Church was that movement. For those 20 years I read and understood the Bible through the interpretive lens of Witness Lee. No verse or verses plainly stated that God was "processed", but brother Lee said God was processed, and put together a number of verses and claimed that this is what those verses were saying, so I looked no further.

Conversely, when, under the instruction and direction of Witness Lee, the Local Church began suing the bejeebers out of any Christian who looked at them cross-eyed, my Christian conscience and sensibilities were greatly bothered. I was bothered because the plain words of the apostle Paul seemed to instruct Christians not to sue each other. Of course Witness Lee and his co-workers were quite aware of the biblical mandate, so they simply "re-interpreted" that passage. Instead of simply suing their brothers and sisters in Christ, they were "appealing to Caesar"...just like the apostle Paul!

Ok, before I take us all around the mulberry bush again, let me try to boil all this down to the lowest common denominator, as best I can.

I have made this point before, but I think it bears repeating - Every Christian teacher is an interpreter. Even when they are supposedly just teaching you "the pure Word", they are interpreting. Some passages require more interpreting than others. "Do not steal" doesn't need a lot of interpretation. "Do not murder" does not need a lot of interpretation. But what about "Work out your own salvation"? This verse screams out for interpretation. Would you be surprised to know that some have argued that this verse confirms that salvation is contingent upon works? After all, this are what the plain words tell us. Or is this really what the plain words are telling us?-

I completely agree with this. Thank you. I too have made a similar journey. I also consider many of the teachers in the LC I knew to be healthy in the faith and the truth. Not perfect, but very beneficial. Most of these are long gone from the LC. WL was never my sole source, however, to "teach and council me in the Word."

Originally Posted by UntoHim

After a number of years removed from the Local Church of Witness Lee, I began to study certain passages, to confirm that Lee's interpretation was correct. Obviously, 1 Corinthians 15:45 was high on the list. Now this was before it was possible to research almost anything on the Internet. So I bought books and commentaries where I could find them, and I would drive considerable distances to Christian universities and libraries to check out and/or photocopy all sorts of commentaries and word studies. At first, it was a tough road to hoe - my heart and mind were still virtually petrified by the teachings of Witness Lee. I had to fight through and resist the notion that all these books and commentaries were "the dead teachings of man" and were merely the product of "poor, poor Christianity".

Fast forward a number of years. After studying, after researching, after considering, after praying, then studying some more, researching some more, after learning a little about the vocabulary, grammar, syntax of Koine Greek, and most importantly, letting my mind become unpickled by the interpretations and opinions of someone teaching me "the pure word of God", I slowly but surely started to let the Bible interpret the Bible. When the Bible is interpreted by the Bible, one comes to appreciate the fact that certain words have different meanings and implications, depending upon the context in which we find them. Take for instance the Greek word πνεύμα pneuma, translated as "spirit" and "Spirit" (sometimes as "wind" or "breath") It should be obvious to any careful reader of the New Testament that not every appearance of the word pneuma is a reference to the Holy Spirit. This should go without saying, but since some folks around here are insisting that 1 Corinthians 15:45 is referencing the Holy Spirit, I guess it is incumbent upon those of us who know differently to speak up. I use the word "know" advisedly. After all, the apostle Paul is no longer among us to tell us, so we are left to rely upon, firstly, if at all possible, letting the Bible interpret the Bible, and then rely upon the teachings and interpretations of as many godly and knowledgeable men and women of God, both contemporary and since the beginning, as possible.

Lastly, I think it's very important to note that additional descriptors, such as "life-giving" do not necessarily solidify the absolute meaning of any given word. In many cases, the descriptor or adjective itself is in need of being interpreted. And such is the case with 1 Corinthians 15:45. With this in mind, it is easy to see how one could consider Witness Lee's quip "how many life-giving Spirits are there!?" as sophomoric to say the least, and really just exposes him as the amateur theologian he really was.

This post is already too long, so I'll put off giving my personal interpretation of 1 Corinthians 15:45. I think it is a wonderful verse. It's a pivotal verse. It is a significant verse.
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Let me ask in another way concerning I Cor 15.45, how can you say that this refers to Jesus Christ? How do you know He is the "last Adam?" Does it not seem absurd to you that Jesus would be called the "second man?" For sure only Cain or Abel would qualify for this role. To me the former connections here are more difficult than the latter.

But let's address the latter also. If the "life-giving spirit" that Jesus became via resurrection is not "THE Holy Spirit," then do you think that the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Jesus Christ? (Phil 1.19) Is the Holy Spirit the Spirit of God? (Rom 8.9) Is the Holy Spirit the Spirit of Christ? (Rom 8.9) Is the Holy Spirit the Spirit of His Son? (GAL 4.6) Is the Holy Spirit the 7 Spirits before the throne of God? (Rev 1.4) How do you explain all of this?

And how do you reconcile II Cor 3.17, "now the Lord is the Spirit." If not the Holy Spirit, then please tell me who this Lord is?