[Curious]

I just want to add two things quickly. One, I cringe too, not so much at Paul's instructions being considered here, but at my own origional post. I sound quite angry and combative now I read it again. Not delivered in a gentle spirit, perhaps a bit of 'truth without love'. My apologies for that.

Also I know I mention history here and there. That might seem odd or irrelevant. I think of history as 'the threshing floor' of truth. Big patterns that repeat over and over, like elevation of rulers to God-like status, exploiting the people hand over fist as Samuel warned would happen when the Isrealites demanded a King..... I see that history verifies this over and over. Every tyrannical despotic King, Tzar, Emporer, Pharaoh, Ceaser, General Secretary...to the little-known cult that your next-door - neighbor belongs to. Whatever the name, is just a WL on a bigger or lesser scale. A look at history reinforces the truth that authority without accountability is a means to darkness and evil, not light and truth.

Same with the woman issue.... I feel what I've said in the post about about how the fallen world has treated and viewed women historically is relevant to the discussion. Even though it might seem a bit left-field. The bigger lessons of history can only verify God as the source of truth. If the fruit of an interpretation of scriptures aligns with what has caused darkness and harm, then that raises at least a caution and rethink about where and how that interpretation really sits. Teaching 'full submission, silence, and that a man can not learn or be taught from a woman, and that she is prone to being deceived, and by implication men are not, definitely lowers her to that vulnerable state of being a lesser being. Its also what the LC basically teaches all it's people to do, replace 'man' and 'woman' with 'leaders of recovery' and 'followers' and you have the same exact deal.