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Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!
Jo, I'm not so much trying to convince you as to share with you how I think we've arrived at clarity between us (at least as far as I'm concerned). You seem to discern such practices as mine as outright mysticism, and tend to be quick to label anyone who practices such things as a mystic. (personally, I don't even see that as a bad thing to be called!) Please forgive me, but I tend to think that what you practice is being pretty dead and fruitless. Again, I think we need both sides of this flapjack, not an unturned cake!
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StG, why is it that in one sentence you act offended at your practices being labeled mysticism yet in the next say you don't view it as such a bad thing to be called a mystic?
Also, I'm confused as to why you would so hastly label my personal practice as "dead and fruitless" without thorough inquiry nor a reasoned argument, however when I provide a reasoned argument alongside your own admission to practicing mysticism (Lectio Divina) you accuse me of being quick to label your practice.
It's not the first time on here that my faith has so quickly been labeled "dead". I'll chalk it up to frustration.
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Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!
Here are some verses from the post I made yesterday on that thread, which illustrates how the bible says we can and should take the initiative to contact the Lord and pursue Him:...
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Those verses don't actually speak about "contacting" God. You only need to look to the second half of the Philippians verse you posted to invalidate that premise.
"work out your salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God who works in you to will and to act on behalf of His good purpose . . . " Phil 2:12-13
First, salvation is already implied and by that a relationship with God; so if God is already with you and working in you, why would you have to contact or pursue Him?
Regardless, in an attempt to avoid endless back and forth on differentiating between mysticism and biblical Christianity let me try to get to the real root of our disagreement.
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Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!
So with that clarity - if indeed it is clarity - what shall we do? Hopefully just love each other bro!
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The central message of Jesus to his church is to "love one another that men may know you are my disciples". To that I say, amen. The question is, StG, by what love shall we reach this goal and how can we discern the fruits of real love?
Here's a recent post you made concerning the love found in the Local Churches:
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Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!
Yes, it was justified as "tough love." Problem is, there was little love being experienced (so it was just tough)! In the absence of love, Christianity - and especially the LC - just becomes a minister of law.
It's simply a natural gravitation of the flesh. Genuine love, God's love, really is the one thing that can't be faked, and will be present if Christ is.
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My concern is this; God's love
can be faked.
God's love cannot exist in a place where the gospel is absent otherwise His love would only work to unite people in a lie rather than in the truth, and God would not compromise on His truth.
The issue wasn't an absence of love. Love has always been present in the Local Churches. However it wasn't the love of God, it was the love of man. "Love bombing" is the term you hear when it comes to aberrant religious groups. This love is not conditioned upon truth, but conditioned upon man's ideology. It looks and feels like true love, it has to in order to gain converts, but eventually the mask falls off and this love's true colors are revealed. Unfortunately by the time you realize it, you're already deep in its clutches. All that's left for you at this point is this "tough love" that you speak of because through the testing of time it was shown that it was never really God's love to begin with. God's love on the other hand never fails.
If God's love was ever present in the LC's, it was because baby Christians who heard the true gospel and received it with joy had entered into the LC's with a measure of light. Because of their lack of discernment, as time went on, the gospel seeded in their hearts was usurped and supplanted by another and so that light eventually left. By this new gospel they soon found themselves having to work toward their salvation. Finally as a result they incrementally fell away from Christ and were joined to the body of Watchman Nee without ever really realizing what had taken place.
God always presents us with the choice, yet so many of us are choked off by the concerns of this world and choose the validation of man and community over the truth. In the end, there is no one to blame except ourselves.
Again, God's love is only present where the true gospel is being preached. How can you discern between God's love and man's? Man is willing to compromise on the truth as a means to whatever end they are trying to achieve. God's love will never compromise on truth, because to do so would be going against His very nature.
Which type of love do you see working in you? Is it one that's willing to compromise on the truth for the sake of unity? Or is it one that seeks to unite other's in the truth at the risk of being rejected?
As the adage goes;
"It is better to be divided by truth than to be united in error. It is better to speak the truth that hurts and then heals, than falsehood that comforts and then kills.”
We have a different idea of what love is, StG.
God bless you
