Quote:
Originally Posted by theLCfurry
Can you guys also give me personal testimonies about what you guys when through during the Daystar, Phillip Lee, the lawsuits to Harvest House, Max Rapport + John Ingalls incident, etc. as well as experiences that gave you guys warning signs that the LC was probably a cult?
|
How do you know George Washington ever existed? Did you meet him? Or meet anyone that met him? No? Okay, then, maybe George was just "fake history", right? Did George & Co really cross the Delaware River on Christmas Eve, 1775? How do we know Hannibal crossed the Alps? How do we know Caesar crossed the Rubicon?
How do we know anything?
What we do typically is look at a plethora of sources, and verify each one by OTHER sources that corroborate, whether each "witness" is true (and how much). So if a lot of people say "such and such happened", then we look at each witness. Is that one reliable. Are there others that agree, and is each one reliable. And so forth. A chain of witnesses, and a network of witnesses.
Does that make any sense?
So if you read the stories of Jane Anderson, or Don Rutledge, or John Ingalls, or Bill Mallon, you ask, is this true and factual, or fake, made-up stuff. And if you haven't developed the skill set to differentiate "real" - like history books - from "fantasy" - like DC comics or whatever they sell today... well, what can I say? Not sure I can help you.
Have you read the stories? What do you think? Don't ask me - read them yourself. Do the leg work.
Think about it for a minute. This is a critical skill set. Develop it. Now is your chance. The ability to listen to multiple sources, and see who's blowing smoke rings, and who's trying to accurately convey what happened. Think about Solomon, for example. Two ladies there, both claiming a child. Some capacity to discern is a requirement. Don't you think God has given us this right, and this responsibility to exercise this capacity?
On one side, you have one witness, Mr. Witness. And on the other side you have multiple witnesses, Jane Anderson, John Ingalls, Bill Mallon, Max and Sandee Rapoport, Don Rutledge, and others. And all the multiple witnesses corroborate with what I saw by living in the Living Stream Ministry Church.
What I saw: information control. Don't ask questions, they are from Satan. Don't think, you will get confused. Don't listen to anyone else, because we have the direct line to God.
In the Living Stream Church, you are presented with direct contradiction, and nobody asks about it. Because nobody can ask about it. Is that not mind control? According to LSM, women can't teach, yet they sell books by women on the LSM web site ("God's Plan of Redemption") which they call critical revelations of recovery from God. Yet nobody notices, or questions this? What perspective, then, are we promoting? Mindlessness? No thanks. I'll take the uncertainties of history versus the delusional certainties of the self-appointed man of the hour.
Everyone is free to make up their own mind. But I would suggest doing some work before making it up. Don't just take the assurances from the Snake Oil Salesmen.
Another hint: look at who profits, and has ulterior motives to corrupt the narrative. How much $$ did Don Rutledge make, peddling his narrative of Living Stream Church history? None? Fancy that. How much does LSM take in peddling their literature? Tens of millions of $$. Who has an inducement to distort the narrative?
And if you don't know who Don Rutledge is, or Jane Anderson, or Max and Sandee, or John I, or Bill Mallon, then I suggest you haven't done your homework on this group.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Indiana
I recently (2001) phoned a brother in Redding, CA, Dick Ingram, about a certain matter and we got into a discussion about the problems of misconduct at the Living Stream Ministry office in the late eighties. This brother, an elder, stated that he thought that all the talk back then about the business manager’s immoral behavior was just hearsay. Since I heard from others that it was definitely not hearsay, but true, I sought to talk to an eye-witness. This whole matter of Philip Lee’s serious misconduct and his being allowed to continue on in the capacity as manager of the LSM operations, working with sisters, without discipline from Brother Lee or the elders over a long period of time was a primary driving wedge between the saints and a major contributing factor to the turmoil and division in the recovery.
|
Suppose George Washington crossing the Delaware was just "hearsay". All those accounts, held by so many over the years, a network of witnesses. All just hearsay. I mean, at some point, if you insist on denying the many interlocking and mutually-reinforcing eye-witnesses, then you're free to live in your own world of denial. But I would suggest it's not the world most of us live in. You know, where you listen to multiple sources and exercise discernment. Your mother lives in her own world, there. You're free to join her there if you choose. Either way, you choose.