[Ohio]

Originally Posted by OBW

You did not actually say anything about my point. I never said that Biden didn't get the guy fired. It was a point of US policy that required it. I guess you are still stuck on the ignorant notion that using the aid as leverage to enforce US policy at the direction of the president is the same as using aid as leverage to at least get the announcement of an investigation into a political rival. Didn't even require that there ever be an actual investigation. He just wanted the statement that one was to be undertaken as something to point back at during the next election.

US policy requires that Biden get the Prosecutor General of Ukraine fired? When the same Prosecutor General of Ukraine is investigating your son Hunter and his boss, the most corrupt oligarch in that country?

Wow! You really should think about this some more.

So actual US policy v personal political advantage are the same? Only in the power-addled mind of Trump. Personal gain v requirement of US policy. One has the backing of the US government. Yes, it is a "this for that" requirement. But there is no "all quid pro quos are created equal" clause in the constitution. Where the government legitimately stipulates a requirement, then following through is required. Where an individual, even the president, stipulates a private requirement for his/her personal benefit, then it is a misuse of power and constitutes a request for a bribe.

The whole impeachment debate boils down to this: Did Trump request an investigation in Ukraine for past crimes or for future elections? That point was never proven in court.

Thus your hypothesis of "personal gain" is purely speculative. Trump's own words points to the past not the future. Trump had just been cleared of Muller's Russian Collusion investigation, and he wanted others to be investigated. There was plenty of other indications, by those in the media and the State Dept, that warranted this.

I actually find this kind of funny that you would believe that Trump was so scared of Biden in the 2020 election, that he would stoop to this. Joe Biden appears to have dementia. He can't even string together a whole coherent sentence. Even Obama refuses to back him, and told him not to run. Biden is the weakest candidate in the field.

That someone writes well researched and documented books does not make anything I said incorrect. Especially when there was nothing posted that even responded to what I said. It is a sad day when the level of discussion has stooped to appeals to authority that don't even address the issue. It doesn't matter if Biden bragged about actually carrying out the mandate he was legitimately given.

Where is your proof that VP Biden had a mandate and the legal authority to fire a prosecutor in another country?

And I have watched that clip. It was blunt, factual, and rather low-key for the kind of "brag" that everyone mesmerized by Trump seems to read into it. But it really wouldn't matter if he had bragged in the outlandish way that Trump so often does since it would have been a legal — even required — action on his part. Unlike the abuse of power that Trump continues to brag was "perfect."

With Trump's supposed Quid Pro Quo, nothing ever happened! Aid was given. Lethal aid at that, which Obama and Biden had refused while Russia annexed Crimea.

With Biden, however, real action was taken. The Prosecutor General was fired. Biden extorted the President of Ukraine by leveraging guaranteed loans to protect his own son from criminal investigation. Biden acted as a mob boss, using American taxpayer money.