Quote:
Originally Posted by aron
I was the same way with Watchman Nee. I adored his writings, considering them deep and spiritual.
But over time (I have not met in LC groups for years now) I have reconsidered his works more objectively. The main problem that I now have with Nee is twofold, and it is related.
1. He gets you to focus on your relationship with Christ, instead of Christ with the Father. Jesus on earth walked with the Father, always in obedience. I occasionally walk in obedience with Christ, and occasionally fail. Occasionally I do indeed "rest in Christ" as you note above. But occasionally I step outside of Christ, and fall. Look at Peter. Occasionally he was great, occasionally he fell. We don't want to use Peter's experiences as our guide, other than as warnings (as if we don't get enough already from our living!)
But Nee got you to focus on subjectivity. That leads to the second problem.
2. Once you focus on yourself and your experiences, you are ripe for manipulation. Enter Witness Lee (and the Blendeds, and Dong Yu Lan, and Titus Chu, and others). Those who would seize the Emperor's Throne now can seize you through your feelings, and put you under their dominion. Suddenly it is not about the Bible but about your feelings, about the latest teaching, about "being one with the brothers", about an abstract "church".
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Hi there aron,
Thank you for taking the time to give a lengthy response. I really need as much info as possible with regards to this group. I guess when you talk about Watchman Nee getting one to focus on subjectivity and the "feeling of life" within oneself, I do agree with some of that when it comes to the subjective. You are correct in saying that objectively it is Jesus' obedience to the Father that matters. And to you, I say Amen brother! Christ's obedience on our behalf to our Father in heaven is the basis for our salvation. However, I do remember Watchman Nee saying in his writings that feelings are useless when it comes to determining the things of the Spirit. It is faith. He holds to "Fact, Faith, and then Feelings" model. I do believe that it is necessary to "Experience God" in our walk with Christ.
Personally in my Christian life, I have experienced both the objective and subjective. Whenever I read the Word, or whenever there is a supernatural experience, I have gotten both. If I feel something in my spirit, I make sure that it does line up with the Word. I jokingly consider myself a "Reformed Bapti-costal." I have Calvinistic Reformed Baptist leanings, and I have Pentecostal leanings because by the grace of God, I do pray in tongues (of course I do this in line with 1 Corinthians 14 - if there are no interpretors, I would do this privately or just at home in my devotional life). If I get convicted about a sin in my spirit, I do feel it (subjective) and I end up repenting. Also, I had a time where I felt the Lord wanted me to change directions when I was driving Uber to pick up one more customer (when I was suppose to be on my way home), and I pick up the customer. The customer ends up telling me why he doesn't believe in God, and I ended up sharing the Gospel with him. In my time with the Lord, I have experienced His presence in a way where I would end up on my knees. I know Brother Paul Washer has had that experience in the prayer closet. And I would agree with Brother Washer's statement that, "The mark of a man of God is God upon the man!" I think if we are walking the Christian life without the power of Christ upon our lives (John 15:5, Galatians 2:20), it would be impossible to walk it. -
https://youtu.be/vxzM3EI-xCg
I guess for me it is both objective and subjective. Now, in terms of what you say about relying on feelings and how that can be manipulated by spiritually abusive leaders: That is very true! I think when someone is unbalanced (when it comes to feelings and facts), that can really lead to that person being controlled. That person will only look within themselves, instead of the Word. On the other hand, I have seen churches where it can be "Father, Son, and Holy Bible", they don't know what to do with the Third guy, and it becomes cold and rigid. Cults can spring up when one leans too much onto one side or the other.
I would love to hear more of your thoughts, Brethren. Keep em' coming!
Your Servant in Jesus' Name,
- M.L.