[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by OBW

I have learned, mostly from experience with the LC, that reading into the scripture (eisegesis (sp?) may ultimately be correct, but is seldom a basis for strongly-stated doctrine, or even "really-ought-to-believe-it" teachings. I have no problem with the idea. Or with the possibility that it might be correct.

But one verse saying that what is born of Spirit is spirit does not definitively mean that it places Jesus in our spirit. I am born of my father, but he does not "live in me" in a way that warrants the kind of thought that could be a metaphorical (or even literal) comparison. Yes, I have some of his DNA, as well as my mother's.

Maybe you see my reluctance on this issue. It could be true. But that is insufficient to warrant emphasis, complete with songs heralding its alleged truth. I find it much better to understand the actual importance of what was being referred to when Jesus made his statement(s). It wasn't about stirring us into the Christian equivalent of a beer-hall song. It was to make a spiritual comparison of physical eating of nourishment to the spiritual benefits of hearing (and heeding) what He was speaking (and what had been written in the scriptures).

The LC was long on hooks to get us and keep us. We were the chosen generation. The ones who returned from Babylon (unlike the rest of Christianity). We found the talisman for the proper name of a church — and it was all tied up in the legally registered name of a city/town. We had the better lexicon, using the highest wording, especially when concatenated into almost meaningless, over-adjectivized banners at trainings.

And when some of us left (including me) we took some of it along with us. We thought it was actually somehow important. Like needing to pray more like a LC prayer meeting than like the Lord's prayer (or disciple's prayer). I have spent many years getting rid of what I have found to be "simply" wrong. (Lee was fond of the word "simply.") And I have tended to take what was not necessarily wrong and lowered it at least one or two notches in my book of importance. Mostly, I have sought to learn what really is in the the Bible and hold to that regardless of where I heard it.

I would never say that there was nothing good to come from it. But to the extent that there is, it is mostly just for me, not as something to spread around like it is manna hidden from the mooing cows in Christianity. That is the way the LC would look at it.

BTW, there are some aspects of both Calvinist and Arminian theologies that are based on using their own special glasses (like "God's economy" was to Nee and Lee) all over the Bible to reinterpret things to say what they do not. It is a problem for everyone. I see some of the problems, and I am sure that I do not see others. I have found some in myself, and know that I will never find it all because I tend to like my "glasses."

But after 32 years, I no longer like the LC glasses.

Thoughtful response and I hear ya. It is a topic those of us in Scottsdale are mindful of. That is, are we just accepting man's speaking on something (this could be LC speaking - often is - or other)? In any case, better to focus on the pure word than commentaries, etc. I put away my Recovery version with footnotes long ago for that reason, and haven't referred to a WL footnote for some time. I don't even use the RV without footnotes any more, although I did think it a pretty decent translation. However, there were still a few little "agenda" driven things in the translation of various verses (of course there always is with any translation). And now I consult the Greek more.

So pursuant to your post above, in John 17 there are some verses to consider, where Jesus says, "You Father are in me." Is this the Father, as Jesus says, or just the Father's life? Then Jesus says He will be in us, etc. And then we have the verses in Romans 8:9-11 "You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ. But if Christ is in you, then even though your body is subject to death because of sin, the Spirit gives life because of righteousness. And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies because of his Spirit who lives in you." This is certainly a mystery which only He can reveal clearly to us!