[Jo S]

I'll attempt to lay it all out here so brace yourself, this will be a long post.

Originally Posted by Ohio

Instead of Jo S jumping in to shoot down their discussions, should he not rather follow Paul's pattern to exhort the way of faith out of a pure heart?

StG's title posed a specific question but in the body of his thread he made this statement, and I quote, "Any-a-ways - I thought this might be an interesting topic to discuss."

So by this, he opened up the thread to a general discussion on the topic of "feasting on the Lord".

You can say I steered the conversation but the topic was maintained and the practice labeled mysticism. To say I'm "shooting down" the conversation, like you and Raptor are doing, is an emotional appeal. And to claim I'm not attempting to exhort is claiming you know my heart...

Originally Posted by UntoHim

[COLOR="Navy"]I want to say something to my brothers Son to Glory!, Raptor and Jo S, not really as a "moderator", but simply as a fellow forum member. I really think that you fellows are talking past each other instead of talking with each other......

UntoHim,

As the forum moderator, I have respect for what you do and I appreciate you trying to be the voice of reason here. However, despite your effort in keeping the peace serious topics such as faith based vs works based spirituality will cause sparks to fly. In the case of mysticism and Christianity "talking past each other" isn't possible because two different things are being presented. It's just hard to differentiate between the two because both are being presented as the same thing.

If I wasn't clear before, I'll say it again; There is no middle ground when it comes to this topic. Claiming that there are different spiritual approaches to Christ is like claiming that all religions lead to the same God...It's just not true.

Many LC'ers think that there's this dichotomy of you're either "spiritual" or you're "religious" aka a legalistic Christian but I'm telling you that spirituality can be inwardly idolatrous as well. Religion doesn't have to be outwardly ritualistic to be dead religion. Buddhists, Hindus, and many other spiritualists have a full spiritual life. They too chant, meditate, read religious texts, and pray (many even do it in Jesus's name) and receive all kinds of spiritual benefits like epiphanies and ecstasies but they don't actually know the Lord Jesus Christ. The point is, just because you're spiritual and focus on the inward realities through the lense of Christianity doesn't mean you're actually in the faith. (Matthew 7:21) That's why scripture exhorts us to constantly check ourselves and our spiritual life (2 Cor 13:5).

There is joy in salvation and in communion with God but when you turn this joy into something that needs to be pursued by mind altering meditative practices, as the Local Churches teach, it's an entirely different joy that you're embracing and it's not what a personal relationship with God looks like. As a Christian, God transforms our minds by grace alone through a process called sanctification. And this comes from an active relationship with God by the indwelling of His Holy Spirit. It's an automated process sustained by ongoing faith, not meditative works. If you're trying to tap into something by your own practice and effort as if God's Spirit is somewhere way out there needing to be brought in, you're tapping into something else. It may be the spiritual realm you're tapping into but without the guidance of His Holy Spirit, you don't know what's going to come through. Scripture does warn us that Satan and his lies can appear as light.

What tends to happen when groups like the Local Churches neglect biblical repentance is they fall into mysticism and start practicing the "salvation" of the eastern mystic religions (called spiritual liberation or nirvana) but as with the Local Churches their mysticism is just repackaged in Christianity. Many don't recognize the bait and switch just as the Jews didn't recognize they were worshipping foreign gods judging from the fact that they were still praising God with their lips but their hearts were far away from Him.

In a Christian's life, prayer and song are the outflow of the Holy Spirit and not something used to bring an inflow of the spirit into a believer like pray-reading aims to do. As someone else said, reading scripture back to God (or feasting on His Word as in this thread's topic), wasn't a practice invented by the Local Churches but it came through Catholicism and it is a practice of mysticism. Originally it was called Lectio Divina. Because "Lectio Devina" (in any form) essentially makes a food idol out of God's Word, it's a practice to be cautious of. Scripture teaches that when we pray and sing, it's not for our own pleasure, but for the benefit of God's will and for others and not because we're empty and need filling but because we're already full of the Holy Spirit. If you find yourself working toward experiences (or "joy of the Lord" as it's called in the LR) or thinking you're made righteous or fed by prayer or song then you're practicing mysticism not Christianity.

Also, when you're at the point where you're objectifying Jesus rather than viewing him as a person in a relatable human relationship, red flags should go up and you need to stop and ask yourself if that is something the apostles taught. Did they teach Jesus was merely a buffet table or a spiritual rollercoaster ride? I know it can be made to sound spiritual but it's not scripture and it leads to the wrong mindset. The only time Jesus should be view as food and drink is as the sacrificial lamb. And eating him (or accepting his sacrifice) in that context is a one time event because his crucifixion was a one time event. If your faith was tried and true by repentance, in receiving the Holy Spirit, a spring of living water will be inside of you welling up into eternal life. You'll no longer have to travel to the well and draw from it like the women did and as mystics try to do.

Mixing biblical food language can get you false doctrine and works based spirituality. An example is John 21. When Christ tells Peter to feed his sheep, he's simply placing the responsibility of bringing the gospel to the Jewish people onto Peter's shoulders. There is nothing deep , hidden, or mystical that needs to be taken from that figurative language. If there is any continual feeding in the NT, it's that of milk until unregenerate believers are ready to fully embrace the gospel and repent. But milk won't sustain you on a long journey, you need solid food and the Local Churches gave you neither. Instead you were given sugar and taught not to enter through the gate (Jesus) but how to climb over the fence (meaning force you're way into the spiritual realm through mysticism).

I know the difference between mysticism and true biblical Christianity from personal experience so I know what to look for. The answer to all this isn't to get out our minds, stop analyzing the menu, cover our eyes and ears to all the detail, and just get into the spirit as if that's that will solve the issue; It's to take heed.

The first thing Jesus warns us about the end-times and his coming was this; “Take heed that no one deceives you. For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many.

Mysticism disguised as Christianity is known as gnosticism. And it was these gnostics that the apostles continuously warned God's people of. They were called false apostles, false prophets, and false converts. Outwardly they were professing Christians, yet inwardly they were mystics and ravenous wolves. So here's where things start getting really uncomfortable.

Watchman Nee claimed he was the sole possessor of Christ's vision of his church. Witness Lee later carried Nee's torch and claimed he was the sole minister of this vision. Today you have leadership of two factions (LSM/GLA) fighting over possession of Nee's vision, which they both still embrace as being Christ's. So you have to ask yourself; is it typical behavior of a Holy Spirit filled Christian to make such outlandish and audacious claims as being the one's in sole possession of the end-times vision for the entire body of Christ? Where else can you find this kind of boast outside other heretical religious groups like the Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormonism, Catholicism, and the NAR?

No matter who you are, to say that you're in possession of Christ's vision for his church IS essentially claiming you are Christ because only Christ can possess and manifest this revelation.


Recall Christ's warning;

Beware of false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. By their fruit you will recognize them. Are grapes gathered from thorn bushes, or figs from thistles? Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. So then, by their fruit you will recognize them.
Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’
Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness!’

Like Ohio, many wonder how things got so bad within the Local Churches. But rather than getting to the root of the problem, they stop short, stand on top of the tree stump, and project blame. Because to admit Nee taught mysticism means that you, as an initial supporter of Watchman Nee and his ministry, partook of the fruit and practiced in this idolatrous form of spirituality. Ignoring the real issue and blaming others is easier than taking responsibility for one's own actions and turning to God in repentance.

To claim things went bad in the Local Churches is to imply they were right in the beginning. Saying things went from bad to worse I believe is more accurate seeing as the Local Churches were always build upon the foundation of mysticism. And just as with sugar, there was a quick high in the Lord's Recovery but no nutrients to maintain good health. Eventually this diet of false spirituality caused skin outbreaks and depression. Simply put, the fruits of the Local Church went bad because the tree was bad. And the tree was bad because the roots were not in good soil. The fruit was rotten from within, it just took some time to manifest outwardly.

I realize a number of you lost many good years to the Local Churches but the truth is you'll lose even more if you stay luke warm and continue to compromise in your view toward this group and it's leaders whether that's by sympathizing with Nee, Lee, LSM, GLA, or continuing in their heretical practices and doctrines. It's all from the same tree...

If you're truly in Christ, there's no condemnation from him when we fall short. I once had to repent of partaking in a season of mysticism and it was not a fun time in my life but Jesus was always there waiting to embrace me with open arms. He's since used that experience for good which I hope and pray can be of benefit to others here.