Local Church Discussions - View Single Post

Cal · 02-02-2019, 11:42 PM

I do not believe outer darkness is for eternally saved believers. I believe outer darkness is another metaphor for perdition.

aron said that outer darkness is separation from the Lord. I agree with that. But Romans 8:38 says nothing can separate us from God's love. And 1 John 4:8 says God is love. So we cannot be separated from God's love, therefore we cannot be separated from God, therefore we cannot be in outer darkness.

The Bible approaches its warnings to us in many ways. Jesus said don't fear those who can kill the body, but fear him who can throw you into hell. This was a general warning to everyone. But does that mean that God will throw believers into hell? No, but it does mean we should still fear the one who can, because he means business. So when approaching these types of warnings, we have to see there is some crossover. We are given a general word, but which can be taken differently by believers and unbelievers. Believers should fear the one that can cast people into hell, but they should not fear that they themselves will be cast into hell. But unbelievers should fear both.

I believe there are going to be rewards or lack thereof for each of God's people based on their faithfulness. But I do not believe there is going to be any separation from God. The Bible talks about being "beaten with stripes." But I think the stripes will be the regret felt from missing opportunities, not from some kind of severe deprivation in the kingdom age. And I certainly don't believe believers can be "touched by the second death." That word is to Smyrna, the suffering church, which was facing death everyday. Jesus was saying to them, "Don't worry about the first death, because you can't suffer the second death." He wasn't saying be fearful of facing the second death. That just doesn't fit in with the characteristic and example of that particular church. It doesn't make sense that Jesus would warn a faithful church about being in danger of the second death.

Do I think faithfulness is important? Absolutely. But Paul put it in terms of seeking a prize, not of avoiding a punishment.

Let's be perfectly frank here. Witness Lee abused these biblical warnings to control people. Even Drake's "warning" in post #349, for whatever else it he might hope it is, is this kind of tactic, learned from Lee. We should never invoke God's warnings about faithfulness to exert control over people. That's abuse, and one Lee regularly engaged in.

02-02-2019, 11:42 PM	#357
Cal Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: USA Posts: 4,333	Re: Outer Darkness? I do not believe outer darkness is for eternally saved believers. I believe outer darkness is another metaphor for perdition. aron said that outer darkness is separation from the Lord. I agree with that. But Romans 8:38 says nothing can separate us from God's love. And 1 John 4:8 says God is love. So we cannot be separated from God's love, therefore we cannot be separated from God, therefore we cannot be in outer darkness. The Bible approaches its warnings to us in many ways. Jesus said don't fear those who can kill the body, but fear him who can throw you into hell. This was a general warning to everyone. But does that mean that God will throw believers into hell? No, but it does mean we should still fear the one who can, because he means business. So when approaching these types of warnings, we have to see there is some crossover. We are given a general word, but which can be taken differently by believers and unbelievers. Believers should fear the one that can cast people into hell, but they should not fear that they themselves will be cast into hell. But unbelievers should fear both. I believe there are going to be rewards or lack thereof for each of God's people based on their faithfulness. But I do not believe there is going to be any separation from God. The Bible talks about being "beaten with stripes." But I think the stripes will be the regret felt from missing opportunities, not from some kind of severe deprivation in the kingdom age. And I certainly don't believe believers can be "touched by the second death." That word is to Smyrna, the suffering church, which was facing death everyday. Jesus was saying to them, "Don't worry about the first death, because you can't suffer the second death." He wasn't saying be fearful of facing the second death. That just doesn't fit in with the characteristic and example of that particular church. It doesn't make sense that Jesus would warn a faithful church about being in danger of the second death. Do I think faithfulness is important? Absolutely. But Paul put it in terms of seeking a prize, not of avoiding a punishment. Let's be perfectly frank here. Witness Lee abused these biblical warnings to control people. Even Drake's "warning" in post #349, for whatever else it he might hope it is, is this kind of tactic, learned from Lee. We should never invoke God's warnings about faithfulness to exert control over people. That's abuse, and one Lee regularly engaged in.