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Originally Posted by Freedom
I'm not one of those who really has a position on what would be a "normal" amount of meetings, I just know how much is too much. The even bigger concern I have is what are these LC meetings accomplishing? I would say that if LCers had meetings every night of the week and it resulted in a positive impact on people's lives in a practical way, then it wouldn't be so bad. What makes it so bad is that LCers are giving up all their time for something that is unlikely to provide any measurable benefit. Meetings may meet the social needs of individuals on a short term basis, but over the long term, I can't think of much benefit that I gained from the numerous meetings that I attended.
I've sat through so many pointless and boring meetings. Not all LC meetings were that way, but it seemed like boring meetings were the rule, not the exception. What was a big point of frustration to me was that some of these meetings could have been perfect opportunities for something positive. Instead, they were put to waste. For example, most prayer meetings I went to involved spending more time praying for things like Europe or DCP litigation than actual local needs. Meetings that were supposed to be specifically for fellowship or coordination were used instead to read a ministry excerpt that provided the "fellowship". I was okay with all this, because I didn't know any better.
As a whole, I believe that the LCM has the obligation to not take advantage of the young and zealous. People like me would go to every meeting that they were asked to go to. For what? It's hard to say, but somewhere a long the way I got the idea of the Christian walk being something "cooperate". I don't claim for a second that there isn't that aspect, but the problem is that the LC qualifies this "cooperate" aspect by demanding meeting attendance. This results in neglecting a personal walk with the Lord. When it comes down to it and you consider all these "new ones" that the LC has in their arms, does the LC not have the responsibility to relay to them that being a Christian involves more that going to meetings? At one point, I seriously believed that going to meetings was what it meant to be a Christian, and it was a defining attribute of Christians. That attitude then instills doubt as to whether those who don't meet are really "genuine" Christians or not.
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This quote is worth bringing forward. What is "normal" in the LC? Meetings, meetings, meetings, even if not accompanied by a commensurate level of personal transformation. And if no transformation, or precious little, where is the promise of transfiguration, and glorification? It is theology.
Eventually the "young ones" and "new ones" see through the charade, and leave. But what then? Where is the Jesus they were promised? Is he really 'out there, somewhere'?
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Originally Posted by Trapped
my conclusion, just based on my experience, is yes, the local churches (or at least some) do teach a different Jesus.
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I can't point anyone to the Jesus that is out there, but I will offer a few clues, and say that there is a promise, and a command: "Seek and ye shall find". So by all means, seek.
The problem with the Jesus of the LC is that it is the same Jesus of the Protestant fold: one that was developed in opposition to the (admittedly degraded and darkened) status quo. Luther found the Jesus that brought justification through faith, not by works. "It is by grace we are saved. . ." Okay, fine, but Jesus is not 'justification' nor 'grace'. Those are ideas, concepts, abstract principles. There's still a person 'somewhere out there'. Do you get my point?
The gentile Martin Luther developed a thoroughly gentile idea of salvation based on the ministry to the gentiles as presented by Paul. Romans wasn't 'wrong' per se, far from it, but it was written by a Jew, to 1st-century Roman gentile believers in the Jewish Messiah, reconciling them to God through faith in this Messiah.
What happened centuries later is that the ideas there were plucked out of context to meet the need of a German monk who was trying to get out of the RCC. And ideas do have power. Clearly. And they can be related to the truth. Clearly. But they are not Jesus.