Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah
4 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but prove the spirits, whether they are of God;
This is what we are doing on this forum. We are proving, testing, examining, considering "whether they are of God".
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Disagree. There is no testing of spirits on this forum unless one applies 1 John 4:2-3, 1 Cor 12:3, 1 John 4:15, which are the verses which show us how to test the spirits. In some versions it states plainly - "This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God".
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah
3 and every spirit that [a]confesseth not Jesus is not of God:
This is my biggest issue with the doctrine of MOTA, I feel it is a denial of Jesus. The OT prophesied that Jesus would be "the Minister of the Age". To claim that for yourself or for Watchman Nee is to deny that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh. Likewise I feel at its heart the doctrine of the ground of the church denies the Lord's redemption.
and this is the spirit of the antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it cometh; and now it is in the world already.
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I am sure that John had the gnostic gospel in mind of Jesus being a spirit and not a human being, and not as you suggest.
Indeed the context of Hebrews 4 and in particular 4:11 "let us, therefore" is key to understanding its application to ones own self, for self-reflection, as to whether we have ourselves entered God's rest. And the following verse, verse 12, on the application of God's Word to ones own self, where it "divides the soul and spirit", where the Word of God renews our mind and becomes like a mirror (James 1:23-24).
Here lies the practical difficulty of applying Hebrews 4:12 God's Word to divide someone else soul and spirit, in order to discern their spirit - it simply cannot be done and I have never seen it applied successfully in practice.
However in 1 John 4:2-3, 1 Cor 12:3, 1 John 4:15 the focus is decidedly on others, in some versions it states plainly - "This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God". There is no such plain statement in Hebrews 4:12, that we can apply it to test the spirits of others. Neither does 1 John 4 or 1 Cor 12 mention anything of the sort mentioned in Hebrews 4:12.
Furthermore, if Hebrews 4:12 was a suitable test, or worthy of even the slightest consideration, Paul or John most likely would have said so. Paul or John could have, in 1 John 4 and 1 Cor 12, easily mentioned something like Hebrews 4:12 when discussing the discerning of spirits.
The problem with observing the outward things, by way of action or fruit, is that we would not be able to discern the difference between a Christian, a devout Jew, or a devout Muslim or an exceptional humanist.
Although some have raised the point that what a person says may not be from the heart, it also may be the case that a person's actions are merely an act. The Bible, in 1 John 4:2-3, 1 Cor 12:3, 1 John 4:15 , has already told us what discernment approach is most effective.