[Trapped]

Originally Posted by Peter Debelak

Thanks, Trapped, for this post and question.

I've only lurked on the forum for a long time, but this question you pose is quite central for all Christians, especially those who have or are considering emerging from the LC. So, you bring my out of the woodwork to post a rambling comment...

One of my favorite quotes is from Oliver Wendell Holmes: "Certainty always leads to violence."

An off-shoot of that might be: "The quest for certainty is a lie."

We are messy beings. God's wisdom is multifarious and His grace is varied. So, we learn to trust Him.

That said, how do we trust Him? How do we know? This is your question. This is my question.

Peter was "certain" when he tried to prevent Jesus' arrest. Acting "on behalf of God" he almost thwarted God's will that Jesus be crucified.

Paul was "bound by the Spirit to go to Jerusalem." Yet the brothers exhorted Paul "in Spirit" NOT to go to Jerusalem.

Is the Spirit schizophrenic?

I don't think we can know. The source of paralysis is the WRONG assumption that WE CAN KNOW.

So what do we do? I don't know. But I will echo what has been said here by others, like OBW, Ohio, Aron, and Nell: just take a step in a direction that feels right, or what you "want" to do.

I haven't had God speak to me from the heavens, but I do know the sensation of Him saying "NO!"

Take a step forward in one way or another. Know you aren't certainly right, but still commit to your move. And then pray.

I don't know what else we can do. Anything else is dishonest and based on untrue premises about how God works.

Much grace to you.

One of my favorite verses is "God arranges men's seasons that they might grope after Him."

If you do nothing else, grope in the darkness. But don't stay put.

Thoughts?

Hi Peter,

I appreciate your coming out of the woodwork to post. From the responses I have received both here and from current LCers, it seems like this is kind of an equalizing topic for both "sides". As a fellow church kid, one thing I am trying to understand in a general way is just what I grew up in, and the reasons why I grew up the way I did because of the way things were done/said in that place. What I'm stuck with here is, if everyone has the same "how do we know?" question, why on earth did all the brothers and all the young people's serving ones in the LC speak so concretely and definitively about needing to have the Lord's speaking and leading? We talk about church kids struggling because they are drowned in premature knowledge well before they have the maturity in life and experiences in life to have any level of understanding of what their minds are being packed with.....well, what on earth good is it to lay out this, essentially, impossible and unattainable requirement on young kids that apparently the ones speaking it aren't even experiencing? I know these are rhetorical questions, but it's these ones that distract me all day long.

You make a great point about knowing the "NO". For several years I really tried to open and touch the Lord and get His speaking or leading but got nothing in return. Eventually I couldn't be bothered anymore and stopped trying. Then one day as I was leaving my house, I passed by a small pile in my room of totally insignificant things I needed to return to another saint who had made a big enough mistake towards me that an elder recommended I not communicate with them for a period of time. I passed by that small pile of nothing and thought "oh, I'll return it another day, I just don't feel like dealing with it today." Five steps after that I got a "NO - do it today", but I brushed it aside and kept walking. Five more steps and I felt, no joke, like God had reached down from the heavens and poked His finger in my stomach to prevent me from taking another step. I actually looked down expecting to see an indent in my stomach from the "NO". Of course "no's" won't usually be that physical in nature, but the Lord does seem to "show up" sometimes when it's a clear no, doesn't He? Of course I was thoroughly annoyed that the Lord would get off His rear end to speak to me about this literally worthless pile of someone else's belongings and not bother to respond when I sought after Him for myself! But my point is, yes, often there isn't a leading so much as there is a NO.

I do recall a serving one mentioning our conscience specifically as a kind of a no-machine. In other words, it is not going to pipe up that things are okay, it will just activate when things are not okay. Which I guess means, as OBW and others have said, we have the freedom to do that which isn't sinful/immoral/hurtful until we get the NO.

Thanks,

Trapped