Local Church Discussions - View Single Post - Apostles and Prophets

Evangelical · 07-25-2018, 03:41 PM

So far no one has been able to state clearly what are the “tests of apostleship and/or prophethood”.

What ZNPaaneah and Nell presented so far are mostly tests for all believers (e.g. test the spirits), and do not really address the specifics of an apostle.

For an apostle like the apostle Paul or Peter, they have the following things:

1. A commission from the Lord - Paul had a miraculous experience that was hard for anyone to doubt. He could always refer to this experience to remind people of his calling from the Lord Himself. Peter also had miraculous callings and also was chosen by the Lord in the flesh. A clear commission from the Lord gave Paul the ability to endure much hardship and never complain about being an apostle.

2. The authority of God - Paul had the authority over the spiritual and natural world, more than that given to a "normal believer".

3. The power of God - God's power comes from the authority of God, the ability to change things in the spiritual and natural realm.

4. Fruit/evidence - the power of God produces spiritual fruit. This fruit does not mean the "fruit of the Spirit", love, joy, peace etc, but what have they done?- people saved, healed etc.

The last point, fruit, proves that the commission from the Lord is genuine. Paul had numerous salvation's and churches established to his credit, which confirmed his commission. His labor resulted in fruit.

In the church are evangelists, prophets and many others who can do everything that Paul did. For this reason I tend to think of apostles as regular believers whom the Lord chooses and uses in a greater and wider way (e.g. internationally, not just local).

Now let us reverse the 4 steps to see when a person is not an apostle. I have written this assuming they are a believer but think they are an apostle:

1. No commission from the Lord - a person claims to be an apostle but has no clear commission from the Lord. A genuine apostle will have no doubt about it. They will never say "well I thought I had a dream where God told me he wants me to preach to the nations but I'm not really sure". This implies they won't be able to endure hardship - they will fall away at the first sign of trouble, and might wish they weren't an apostle. In contrast, Paul never once complained about being an apostle, and had no doubt about it.

2. Not much authority from God or no authority - if they are a believer they will have some authority, but not as much as an apostle.

3. Not much power or no power - likewise, not as much as an apostle

4. Not much fruit or no fruit - the super-apostles that Paul addresses in his letter to the Corinthians did not endure the hardship he did, or labor in the way he did. They may have claimed to be apostles and even better than Paul, but did not have the evidence to support it, they were NATO. With that, came pride - boasting about their accomplishments (Paul rarely boasted), having an attitude of superiority - in contrast to Paul's meekness.

One thing that stands out to me as a test of an apostle (or prophet) is that no one can choose to be an apostle (or prophet), they are chosen by God, and if chosen by God it is virtually impossible to run away from it (like Jonah, Elijah, etc). Paul thought God chose him even before he was born (Gal 1:15). I am only speculating but I wonder if after Paul's conversion he remembered times when God had visited him, even as a child, and prepared him for his life as an apostle.

I used to be involved in so-called "five-fold ministry". Based on the belief that everyone has gifts, you can answer some sort of questions and add up the total score which attempts to find what gifts you have. - if you have enough traits or gifts you might just be an apostle, or prophet or evangelist. I think Christian bookstores still sell books which have these sorts of tests in them. But I see this is wrong because it is something God chooses, you can't do an "apostleship test" like an IQ test, and then become an apostle. And if you're 65 years old, and just now realizing that God wants you to be an apostle, it's unlikely to be the case.

07-25-2018, 03:41 PM	#18
Evangelical Member Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 3,965	Re: Apostles and Prophets - Biblical Basis for Claims So far no one has been able to state clearly what are the “tests of apostleship and/or prophethood”. What ZNPaaneah and Nell presented so far are mostly tests for all believers (e.g. test the spirits), and do not really address the specifics of an apostle. For an apostle like the apostle Paul or Peter, they have the following things: 1. A commission from the Lord - Paul had a miraculous experience that was hard for anyone to doubt. He could always refer to this experience to remind people of his calling from the Lord Himself. Peter also had miraculous callings and also was chosen by the Lord in the flesh. A clear commission from the Lord gave Paul the ability to endure much hardship and never complain about being an apostle. 2. The authority of God - Paul had the authority over the spiritual and natural world, more than that given to a "normal believer". 3. The power of God - God's power comes from the authority of God, the ability to change things in the spiritual and natural realm. 4. Fruit/evidence - the power of God produces spiritual fruit. This fruit does not mean the "fruit of the Spirit", love, joy, peace etc, but what have they done?- people saved, healed etc. The last point, fruit, proves that the commission from the Lord is genuine. Paul had numerous salvation's and churches established to his credit, which confirmed his commission. His labor resulted in fruit. In the church are evangelists, prophets and many others who can do everything that Paul did. For this reason I tend to think of apostles as regular believers whom the Lord chooses and uses in a greater and wider way (e.g. internationally, not just local). Now let us reverse the 4 steps to see when a person is not an apostle. I have written this assuming they are a believer but think they are an apostle: 1. No commission from the Lord - a person claims to be an apostle but has no clear commission from the Lord. A genuine apostle will have no doubt about it. They will never say "well I thought I had a dream where God told me he wants me to preach to the nations but I'm not really sure". This implies they won't be able to endure hardship - they will fall away at the first sign of trouble, and might wish they weren't an apostle. In contrast, Paul never once complained about being an apostle, and had no doubt about it. 2. Not much authority from God or no authority - if they are a believer they will have some authority, but not as much as an apostle. 3. Not much power or no power - likewise, not as much as an apostle 4. Not much fruit or no fruit - the super-apostles that Paul addresses in his letter to the Corinthians did not endure the hardship he did, or labor in the way he did. They may have claimed to be apostles and even better than Paul, but did not have the evidence to support it, they were NATO. With that, came pride - boasting about their accomplishments (Paul rarely boasted), having an attitude of superiority - in contrast to Paul's meekness. One thing that stands out to me as a test of an apostle (or prophet) is that no one can choose to be an apostle (or prophet), they are chosen by God, and if chosen by God it is virtually impossible to run away from it (like Jonah, Elijah, etc). Paul thought God chose him even before he was born (Gal 1:15). I am only speculating but I wonder if after Paul's conversion he remembered times when God had visited him, even as a child, and prepared him for his life as an apostle. I used to be involved in so-called "five-fold ministry". Based on the belief that everyone has gifts, you can answer some sort of questions and add up the total score which attempts to find what gifts you have. - if you have enough traits or gifts you might just be an apostle, or prophet or evangelist. I think Christian bookstores still sell books which have these sorts of tests in them. But I see this is wrong because it is something God chooses, you can't do an "apostleship test" like an IQ test, and then become an apostle. And if you're 65 years old, and just now realizing that God wants you to be an apostle, it's unlikely to be the case.