[zeek]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

So we can now see that this has nothing to do with Network TV vs Cable, glad we could get that out of the way.

No, that's dismissive and supercilious as if that is an argument, which it isn't.

Jimmy the Greek said "many blacks were superior athletes because of breeding from the time of slavery and that the only area in sports left for whites was coaching."

Trevor Noah said “Africa won the world cup, Africa won the world cup, Africa won the world cup, Africa won the world cup, I get it, they have to say it’s the French team but look at those guys, you don’t get that tan by hanging out in the south of France my friend. Basically if you don’t understand France is Africa’s back up team”.

This is based on the fact that 5 out of 11 players are black. However, 21 out of 23 were born in France and all 23 are French citizens.

As Araud writes, “Unlike the United States of America, France does not refer to their citizens based on their race, religion or origin. To us, there is no hyphenated identity, roots are an individual reality. By calling them an African team, it seems you are denying their Frenchness. This, even in jest, legitimizes the ideology which claims whiteness as the only definition of being French.” Hence my conclusion as well as many others that this was a racist comment by Noah.
So then, perhaps this is in my mind.

Right. Noah didn't say anything about the African-French players being bred for slavery which was Jimmy the Greek's hypothesis.

Certainly Trevor Noah is not accusing France of cheating, that would be a major scandal and inconceivable that they could get away with having ringers play for them. So then, what does he mean “Africa won the world cup”. In my understanding he is saying that France won because of the black players, perhaps I misunderstood, you can clarify this for me. What did he mean that France is “Africa’s back up team”? Perhaps he is not saying that “many blacks are superior athletes” and that this is why France won (which is what Jimmy the Greek was saying). So since you apparently understand his “joke” differently why not explain it to us.

Noah's original point was that France seemed to be denying the player's African origins. In the process of making the joke he went to the other extreme and denied their Frenchness which is what offended Araud.

Also, does your silence on the other four facts indicate that you agree that they are the facts?

Well let's see;

1. Trevor Noah has made a blatantly racist remark during his show. It offended those in France to the extent that the French leader even wrote a letter to the Daily show complaining about the racist tenor of the joke.

Mostly true.

2. Noah's comment is virtually identical to the remark made by Jimmy the Greek which got him fired.

Mostly false.

3. There are numerous examples of people getting fired from Cable TV for making racists remarks.

I haven't followed this so I'm not sure.

4. No sponsor has even hinted that they are pulling their support for the Daily Show.

True as far as I know.

5. No one is even suggesting that Trevor Noah be fired.

True as far as I know.

Also, is your response now that Roseanne was fired because they didn't want to work with her, but that it is OK to be totally racist and insulting as long as you "can keep your sh*t together"?

No.

Really? His response Noah reads letter:
Ambassador "nothing could be less true"
Noah "I could have said Scandinavia won, that would be less true"
He doubled down on his racist comments.
Ambassador "the rich and varied background is a reflection of France's diversity"
Noah "I don't want to be an asshole but I think it is a reflection of France's colonialism".
Clearly, Noah is tying his comment into slavery.

No, he's clearly tying it to colonialism which is a historical fact.

Noah refers to "Nazi's" in France who attack the French players of African heritage and tell them "to go back to Africa, you aren't french, you are African". This is what the Ambassador was repudiating and to him, to me and to many others (obviously not Zeek, we are still waiting for his insight) what Noah said was equivalent to what the Nazi's were saying. Both were saying that they weren't french they were Africans.

Right. But, the Nazi's say it with hatred of the other whereas Noah said it with pride of identity.

Then Noah pulls a very deceitful little trick. "In order to be French you have to erase everything that is African?" He was the one that erased their status as French. He was the one that said, based on five players, that a team of 23 French men did not represent France's victory but Africa's. How is any of this a celebration that they could become French?

I don't see it as a trick. As the Frenchman commented "Unlike in the United States of America, France does not refer to its citizens based on their race, religion or origin. To us there is no hyphenated identity." Noah to make his joke made the parallel error of erasing their Frenchness.

He says "I don't take their frenchness away". Really, sure fooled me and everyone else in France. Not only did he take the "frenchness" away from the five, but from all 23.

I agree on that point.

So yes, I see a difference. Trevor Noah is more polished at lying and being deceitful. Personally I think his critique of Roseanne is very appropriate here. He makes it very clear in his little monologue that saying something that is racist means you are racist.

Rob Dozier of Slate: So despite the criticism, Noah will still be celebrating the fact that “Africans” won the World Cup. “So, I will continue to praise them for being African because I believe that they are of Africa, their parents are from Africa and they can be French at the same time,” he said. “And if French people are saying they can’t be both, then I think that they have a problem and not me.”

So, Noah makes light of the fact that he had made a parallel error by not acknowledging the players' Frenchness. I don't find his joke as offensive like Barr's but the fact that he didn't balance it by acknowledging their Frenchness when he made the remark and, as you said, "doubled down on it" after the letter is problematic to me.