[Trapped]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Fact is, Paul's writings show us that he apparently never heard of this doctrine of OCOC. Romans 16.3, I Cor. 16.19, and Colossians 4.15 provide us with a few examples where Nee/Lee/LSM must shoehorn the scripture into their own teaching. It's not supposed to work that way, and a careful reading of these verses casts doubt upon their whole doctrine and system of error.

Ok, so the best manuscripts use “church”, which would make Acts 9:31 “the church throughout the whole of Judea and Galilee and Samaria” a knockout verse against OCOC.

Everything I type below this is truly in the spirit of discussion. I am not trying to argue or persuade one way or the other, or knock anyone’s perspective. I am actually trying to come to my own conclusion on this matter (if that’s even possible). After you wade through a lot of peripheral LSM practices, the OCOC/ground of oneness thing seems to me to be THE THING that the division of the local churches from other believers hinges on (and yes that is all tied back to and inextricably linked to Witness Lee and LSM and “the ministry” and all that as a basis of fellowship and division…but that’s a different topic). I’ve heard a lot of terms used to describe the concept, e.g. “in the central lane” or “see the vision” or “in the fellowship”, etc but if you push for a more concrete concept, it always comes back to “well, they don’t meet on the ground of oneness”, which stems from OCOC.

[Just typing that alone makes me say kind of wryly, “well geez, if the requirement for a legitimate gathering is that they ‘take a stand’ for the ‘ground of oneness’ then why wouldn’t the Lord have that step/thought/discussion/decision somewhere distinctly in the Bible?” Or, why isn’t there an example where others came along and the Lord “no, you don’t meet on the ground of oneness, you aren’t legit!”]

Colossians 4:15 - I'm happy to be corrected here but I can see how Colossians 4:15 can dovetail pretty seamlessly with OCOC, even before I read Lee's footnote, which said exactly what I thought it would say: the church in Laodicea simply met in Nymphas's house. Of course, there may have been other "church which is in [other person's] house" also in Laodicea, but is that found anywhere? Or.....is there any indication of how many believers were in Laodicea at the time to give us an idea if the entire church in Laodicea coming together in one house would even have been logistically possible? Genuine wondering out loud here.

1 Cor. 16:19 - same thoughts here as for Colossians 4:15.

Romans 16:3 - you must have meant 16:4, referring to the churches of the Gentiles, right? Aron said in another thread that this is akin to saying “Chinese-speaking meeting”. I could see it being stated as, for example, like, “the Spanish-speaking churches thank so-and-so for their care”, which also does not necessarily contradict OCOC ….. I can think of a few areas of the U.S. where there are a number of Spanish-speaking LC churches near each other who would need a particular type of care and that phrase would be appropriate. Unless I am misunderstanding the verse…..do we know if the “churches of the Gentiles” refers to gatherings across multiple cities? Or does it refer to gatherings in one city? If in one city, then that changes things and would, in my view, be another verse that contradicts OCOC.