Quote:
Originally Posted by tasteslikegold
I cannot agree with your definition of righteousness nor your characterization of LC meetings. A proper definition of righteousness is "absolute uprightness before God." In terms of the period of the law from Moses until Christ it was related to the keeping of the law. In terms of the church-age, from Christ onward, it is a matter of faith, of believing into Christ (Rom. 4:3; 1:17; 3:22, etc.). Any so-called "righteous behavior" in and of ourselves - even as Christians - is completely insufficient to properly display the kingdom of God. We have to be related to Christ and the church has to be related to Christ. Without regular involvement with Christ - our personal interactions with Him - and without our regular interactions with the Body of Christ, the church, we cannot display the righteousness of God. Not in any way, shape or form. I don't care how "good" you are to your family, friends, co-workers or customers.
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And so the Kingdom is about church? No. It is the display of the righteousness of God. I never said that we had to crank it out on our own. That was your strawman argument. Defeat it all day long because I didn't make it.
I said that if you are not living righteously, then you are not living the Kingdom. I did not say that you should try to live it on your own. And "church" is not the way that you do live it. It is Christ. I would agree that meeting together is a positive influence in your tendency to live Christ. But it is not the Kingdom. The Kingdom is the restoration. It is the whole enchilada. It is not "simply" Christ and the church. That compartmentalizes your Kingdom into "church" which is Kingdom, and everything else which is not. And the LC as a group is failing at the rest.
In saying that, I do not deny an importance to the regular assembly of the called-out ones. But the meeting of the called-out ones is note the Kingdom.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tasteslikegold
As far as your comment regarding the LC meetings is concerned, displaying God's righteousness is not even that. Nor, for that matter is it standing in a Christian "worship meeting" while a band plays a rock version of "Oh My Soul" with your arms up in the air like some kind of spiritual satellite dish.
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Whether you like the meetings of other Christian groups or not is irrelevant. I don't experience the kind of thing you just mocked. But my snide remark was not that you do what you do, but that you think it is so superior, and that "church life" is the Kingdom. All of the trappings of church, in LC style all the way down to the most liturgical meeting you can find, are not "the Kingdom" except to the extent that it is part of the living of the Kingdom people. The Kingdom is the entire life of the Kingdom people. It includes taking care of your kids (and not just by taking them along to your church meetings), helping your wife with mundane things in the house, living righteously in your environment. Ignore one of those and you are ignoring the Kingdom.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tasteslikegold
Which is exactly why we bring our children to the meeting.
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Yeah. That's quality time. It makes up for ignoring them at home, or being home so little that you aren't even there to ignore them in person. Now they are in a large group setting being ignored by you (and everyone else) there.
Look. I'm not saying that you should not go to meetings, or "to church" or however you want to say it. I'm saying that it is not "the kingdom." And not being "in the church life," which absolutely does mean not part of the Local Churches, does not mean that they are not part of the Kingdom just as much as those who are. If you believe otherwise, then your "church life" is an idol. You place it above obedience to Christ. "Church life" is not a commandment. Love your neighbor is. Your righteousness exceeding that of the Pharisees is. And on and on. And don't bother with that "We're no longer under the law" malarkey. You surely are. Matt 5 increased the requirements. And Jesus said to teach them to obey it all.
You want to talk about terminology. Yes. That was a favorite of Lee's. Have higher terminology. Make sure that you don't say "go to church." Salt and pepper your religious talk with higher terminology. Make the terminology stand out.
Rather, let our "yes" be "yes" and your "no" be "no." Speak the same language. Don't confuse meetings by speaking different languages (that was the meaning of the "trumpet" thing). Don't equivocate around terms so that the common meaning is ignored and some private meaning is intended (but not made clear).
In other words, get over the terminology. If I actually say "go to church" don't have a conniption. If I say "communion" likewise. Don't throw out alternate terminology and insist that everyone use yours or be deficient. For example, the Lord's Table, the Lord's Supper, and Communion are equivalents.