[Jo S]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

You said:

What you do is use one verse and then proceed your own interpretation without having another verse to support that view.

This is a false claim because in my first post I posted 3 verses (more than 1) to support the view that belief is not enough:

The problem with a John 3:16-only view of salvation is that even the devils believe in Christ (James 2:19). Even a devil could agree with the first page of a gospel tract where it says "believe in Christ and you will be saved". A devil could even claim to know Christ (Acts 19:15).

I also used Psalm 41:9 to support Judas being a friend of Christ. This is another example of one verse supporting another.

You post only two verses and then claim you are doing exegesis.

The issue was you didn't do a critical examination of those verses, otherwise you'd have known the Greek term used for the only type of scriptural belief of demons (pisteuo) has multiple meanings depending on the context in which it's used. It could mean simply to think to be true or have a intellectual knowing that per James results in demons "shuttering or trembling" and then there's the pisteuo that is an entrusting which leads to salvation as John refers to.

James 2:19 didn't use the term pisteou in the context of salvation, John 3:16 however did. Therefore, applying the same meaning of pisteou to both verses is error.

Your initial argument didn't acknowledge this alternative as it was based on a presupposition using two unrelated verses in order to push the unscriptural agenda that those having the position of salvation coming through faith alone in Jesus Christ are no different than demons because even demons can pisteou. Number one, that's equivocation, number two your approach would be considered eisegesis not exegesis, and number three your argument acts as a backhanded insult to those that hold the position that salvation is by faith (pistis) alone in Jesus Christ.

The other Greek word for "faith" in instances where scripture speaks about salvation is "pistis" and it's a term that connotes a conviction of truth. Nowhere in scripture do demons have pistis. By you equating the believing (pisteou) of demons to the entrusting and conviction (pisteou/pistis) required for salvation is fallacious.

Paul lived in a constant state of that loss and that is what is the present tense.
"I consider everything a loss" - that is present tense, not past.

The "considering" is present tense. The loss already happened, past tense.

Salvation after death is not possible.

I countered your hypothetical with the example of an NDE experience to show the error in your argument. I'm really not sure you're even concerned about it at this point, nevertheless I'll further clarify.

In an NDE, individuals obviously return back to life being given the opportunity of salvation otherwise we wouldn't have their testimonies. However my point is, while they were lifeless their minds still operate even though they were clinically dead. A condition of clinical death is when measurable brain activity stops, this usually happens within 20-40 seconds from the moment the heart ceases to beat.

My whole point was that even with individuals who are considered brain dead but alive, as in your example, is not grounds for their minds ceasing to function. Who's then to say in this physical state salvation is not a possibility when the mind's functionality is not confined to measurable brain activity as per NDE testimonies?

So then if according to you life + mind = the conditions for the opportunity of salvation then your example isn't a good one to argue against my position.

Time for some multi-verse "exegesis":

Psalm 116:13 I will take the cup of salvation, and call upon the name of the LORD.

Acts 2:21 And everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.'

Romans 10:13 for, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."

Jesus said it was a requirement:

Matt 10:32 Therefore everyone who will confess in Me before men, I also will confess in him before My Father in the heavens.

Romans 10:9
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Romans 10:10
For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

There are too many verses to deny that confession is important for salvation.

It is a Hebrew parallelism which means that the faith of the heart is united with the confession of the mouth, resulting in righteousness and salvation.

“With the faith of the heart is united the confession of the mouth to the result that one obtains righteousness and salvation.”

Simply posting multiple verses without a critical explanation for your argument doesn't constitute exegesis. You're listing verses that mention confession, but none of them explicitly say it's an absolute requirement for salvation.

Confession at the most can be evidence of faith however anyone can make a simple confession. Look at the example in Matthew 7:22. These people will also confess Jesus as "Lord" having done many things in his name yet the Lord will not grant them salvation. Perhaps it's because they only said "Lord" twice and not five times that the Lord rejected them. Of course I'm being sarcastic but the point is these verses certainly do not imply that we need to make some sort of mantric practice out of confession to receive salvation.

So he had no subjective inner experience at all is that what you are saying?

In Acts 9, no. This experience was witnessed by others. By definition this account cannot be considered subjective and Paul's experience was certainly not brought about by any sort of mystical practice or other work.