[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by Jo S

You could pray all your life or memorize the bible but salvation will never come through these things otherwise the Pharisees would have had nothing to worry about.

The error in your argument is that you're trying to tie this all in by equating a Christian (regenerated believer with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit) to a women that was not yet have received the Holy Spirit. The spirit was not yet given because Christ hasn't yet ascended at that point in time.

She wouldn't have touched Christ's garment unless she had faith that it would heal her. Her faith preceded her action. We know this because before she even touched him she said "If I only touch His clothes, I will be healed" (Mark 5:28). Even then, this account of healing does not in any way equate to salvation.

A born again Christian already has the Holy Spirit. You do not need to regain Christ over and over by mysticism or any other means as if he is off a short distance as he was in the women's eyes.

If she did not touch his clothes, she would not have "gained Christ" for her healing. So belief and an action (or work) is necessary. If she merely believed that he could heal her, and never reached out to touch, she would not been healed. Physical healing and soul and spiritual healing (salvation) are from the same faith and same Christ, so we can relate the two, as the Bible does when it says "with his stripes we are healed" in Isaiah. That healing is comprehensive, body, soul and spirit.

By gaining Christ I am not talking about receiving the Holy Spirit in the past and neither was Paul. Paul's words in Phil 3:8

"I consider them garbage, that I may gain Christ"

Are present tense, not past.

Originally Posted by Jo S

Take a look into the Greek. The words for the belief of the demons and the faith available to us have a totally different meanings. You're making an assumption in your argument and equating them in the verses you gave earlier.

We would need to elaborate on that from the Greek.

Originally Posted by Jo S

Sure you can, you yourself gave the prophesy of Psalms 41:9. If we can't know for sure, how did David know his heart fourteen generations before hand?

The verse says nothing about his heart. It says:

Psalm 41:9 Even my close friend, someone I trusted, one who shared my bread, has turned against me.

It says close friend, even someone Jesus trusted. Why would it say close friend and why would Jesus trust him if he knew he was an enemy or Satan?

Also the words "turn against me" proves that Judas was once for Christ. You cannot turn against someone or something unless you first were turned towards them.

Originally Posted by Jo S

To fulfill scripture. But the real question is, why did Judas choose to go along with Jesus? We don't have evidence of Judas doing any good works to show his intention in following Jesus were good, but we do have accounts that record his bad deeds showing his intentions to being one of the twelve were opportunistic in nature.

Judas followed along with Christ but this is not sufficient evidence he trusted or had faith in him. Or just because Jesus loved Judas doesn't mean Judas loved him back.

Psalm 41:9 as I quoted above is that old prophecy which was fulfilled. If Judas was an enemy and not a close friend, and if Judas did not "turn against" but was always for Christ, then Psalm 41:9 would not be fulfilled.